Tablet 13

The Targum from the Beginnings and Facebook timeline

11th March 2011

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I'm interested in the word "with the aid of a mehoqeq", mehoqeq

From the Following Zadokite extract

And these men 'dug the well'-that well whereof it is written, 'Princes digged it, nobles of the people delved it, with the aid of a mehoqeq' [Num. 21.18]. The 'well' in question is the Law. They that 'digged' are those of Israel who repented and departed from the land of Judah to sojourn in the land of Damascus'.

According the following information from the following link

The Link appears to be Mormon research

The "mehoqeq" has the following interpretation

Their notes explain their reasons. These are quite instructive as a quick diversion as this illustrates a very important principle about the biblical manuscripts, namely, there is not a simple uniform Massoretic text underlying the Hebrew Bible. Various manuscripts have various readings, which most certainly effect their meanings, even down through history.

They read shophet for +p# in the first line as "judge," or "charismatic leader" and following Albright perhaps shephet (Ugaritic tpt) and compare the Septuagint arxwn "Archon." [This "archon" is used many times in Genesis of Pharaoh, as well as in Exodus, as well as for others in this "commander" position i.e. Gen. 12:15, 14:7, 25:16, 27:29, 34:2, 42:6, 45:8, 47:5, 49:10, 20, Exo. 2:14]

The qqxm mehoqeq in the second line reads as "commander." In Judges 5:14 the "commander" stands in parallel not with the shebet, but with the wielder of the shebet. Isa. 32:22 uses the two terms synonymously which supports their emendation here.

The Mehoqeq reading as "commander" is made certain in other Hebrew texts, such as Deut. 33:21; Judges 5:14 (cf. Judges 5:9, hoqeqe, an abbreviation of mehoqeq), and Isa. 33:22. The meaning isn’t as clear in Numbers 21:18 and Ps 60:9 = Ps. 108:9. Morphologically this word should mean "one who issues a hoq, i.e., a commander.

On the line where they read "Nor a commander from among his standards," they note that the Samaritan gedaliw is "his standards," or "his battle flags", hence the entire phrase reads "from the midst of his banners." (Cross, Freedman, p. 57, notes 31-33).

In relation to the journey to the ancient first places it appears that a spiritual commander who wields the sceptre or the shebet actually helps the physical discoverers, discover the Seven commands. The Seven commands that are submerged under water as indicated within the above fragment from the Zadokite document. 

The image that seems to be projected is that the Seven commands and the cities will be discovered and princes and all kinds of high level individuals see for themselves the submerged cities.

Further on in the paper we see more definitions of the interpreter of the law.

Klaus Berger shows that the Star of Jacob (Numbers 24:17) is explained in the Dead Sea Scrolls as the "Interpreter of the Law." The scepter that shall arise out of Israel is identified with the "Prince of the whole congregation." (Klaus Berger, Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls: The TRUTH Under Lock and Key?Westminster John Knox Press, 1995:83). This hrwtb #rd #y) , ish doresh wetorah, "Interpreter of the Law," is considered to be an eschatalogical figure, who is to appear with the Branch of David at the end of days. (John J. Collins, "Teacher and Messiah? The One Who Will Teach Righteousness at the End of Days,""in The Community of the Renewed Covenant: The Notre Dame Symposium on the Dead Sea Scrolls, Ed. Eugene Ulrich and James Vanderkam, Univ. of Notre Dame Press, 1994: 194).

and further on we read more information about the last interpreter of the law.

J. G. Heintz notes that there are three criteria for the "Royal Ideology" of Ancient Israel.

The first motif is the Israelite King’s function as the re-presentative of God. (Ps. 8:5, "You have made him almost like a god.")

The second motif is that of the sovereign bringing salvation acquires a juridical and ethical significance. This refers to the continuity of the ordinances of Yahweh and to the historical event of the Mosaic Law. It is from this continuity that the Davidic king draws his legitimacy and his function as agent of law and justice (Isa. 9:6; 11:3-5; Jer. 23:5; 33:15; Ezek 37:24; Zech 9:9-10).

The third motif is being the "son of the king." This figure appears in the prophetic oracles

and bears hope for all of Israel, which is their aspiration for humanity, to be sons of the King. The announcement of the birth of the Messiah in oracular prophetic texts (Isa. 7:14; 9:1-6; 11:1-8; Micah 5:1-3) Combines these motifs. Rev. 22:16, which actually combines both Numbers 24:17, and Isa. 11:1, shows this theme as being both fundamental and quite permanent. "I Jesus… I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star." (J. G. Heintz, "Royal Traits and Messianic Figures: A Thematic and Iconographical Approach," in The Messiah, Charlesworth, pp. 65-66).

This scepter, is the "Prince of the Congregation," in the scrolls. Collins notes "there is a clear reference here to a royal messiah." (Collins, The Scepter and the Star: The Messiahs of the Dead Sea Scrolls and other Ancient Literature,Doubleday, 1995: 80).

The Damascus Document interprets Numbers 21:18 – "The princes digged the well, the nobles of the people digged it, by the direction of the lawgiver, with their staves." Thusly:

"the well is the Law [the Torah, the First five books of Moses], and those who dug it were the converts of Israel who went out of the land of Israel to sojourn in Damascus…. The Stave is the interpreter of the Law." (Collins, p. 22). Notice the Stave is the Interpreter of the Law.

Furthermore, the language of Hosea 10:12 "until he comes and teaches righteousness for you" which the Damascus Document draws from, is applied to Elijah the Tishbite in later Jewish tradition. The eschatalogical Interpreter of the Law should be identified with Elijah. The Dead Sea Scrolls CD VIII 18 identifies the "star" of Balaam’s oracle (Numbers 24:17) as "the Interpreter of the Law," who will come ()bh) to Damascus. This is an allusion to 1 Kings 19:15 where Elijah is told "Go return on your way to the wilderness of Damascus; when you arrive you shall anoint King Hazael as King over Aram." This recalls the later Jewish tradition that Elijah would anoint the Messiah in Justin’s Dialogue with Trypho. (John J. Collins, "Teacher and Messiah? The One Who Will Teach Righteousness at the End of Days," in The Community of the Renewed Covenant, p. 206). The anointing for sin is specifically assigned to the messiah(s) of Aaron and Israel (l)r#yw Nwrh) xy#m, Mashiach ahron weyisrael) (see Collins, Scepter and the Star, p. 115).

N. Wieder shows that the mehoqeq refers to the Interpreter of the Law in regard to whom Isaiah said He bringeth forth a vessel for his work. (Isaiah 54:16). (Wieder, "The ‘Law-Interpreter’ of the Sect of the Dead Sea Scrolls: The Second Moses," in Journal of Jewish Studies, Vol. 4-5, (1953-54): 159).

In relation to this being Elijah, note the first part of the verse! "Behold, I have created the smith (#rx, charash, a worker of metal, wood, or stone, the Hebrew word pointed #$rexe is a sorcer, a magician a #$xala Nwbn: "skilful enchanter," (Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon of the Old Testament, p. 310, entry # 2791) that bloweth the coals in the fire…"

The above seems to reflect the journey in that the main topic of the conversation is about the Seven commands connected to the law and to an historical event, like a discovery of the lost cities all connected to each other and seen in the books.  Also I opened the Office of the Messiah based on the journey and from what I recently read.  Being inspired I acted and opened the office thus acting as an agent.

"He bringeth forth a vessel for his work" To me this seems to indicate that the interpreter of the law will manifest prove of his role in this end time saga, he will bring forth a vessel for his work, perhaps in metaphor this means that a Vessel will  be involved in the Journey to the submerged first places to retrieve the 7 commands.

that bloweth the coals in the fire…The research highlights the truth about everything about the planet and opens the treasure houses, the crowns of truth.  The fire is the coals and the constant digging for the truth only blows more energy on the coals of truth,   The flame of truth get bigger and bigger.

This recalls the later Jewish tradition that Elijah would anoint the Messiah" Could this reflect the recent opening of the office of the Messiah in the physical through this website.  Like some pre-preparation?



Paul writes, "Christ is the end (Gr. telos or goal) of the Law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the Law: "The man who does these things will live by them." But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend to heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down) "or 'Who will descend into the deep?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what does it say?

 "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: -- For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved -- there is no difference between Jew and Greek." (Rom. 10:4-12)


Verse 4 of the same chapter speaks of Israel exiled to the "ends of heaven", and the Targum of Jonathan explains that they are returned "by the high priest Elijah and he collects them from them by the Messiah-King."

Post  Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:17 am

A fragment from the Zadokite Document



the future reward of the faithful (B. xx, 27-34)

Howbeit, all that hold fast to these enactment's, going and coming in accordance with the Law; that hearken to the voice of the Teacher; that make confession before God, saying: Just and truthful are Thy judgments against us, for we have done wickedly, both we and our fathers, in that we have gone contrary to the statutes of the Covenant; all who raise not their hands against His holy statutes or His righteous judgments or His truthful ordinances; all who learn the lessons of the former judgments wherewith the men of the community were adjudged in time past; all who give ear to him who imparts the true interpretation of the Law and who do not controvert the right ordinances when they hear them-all of these shall rejoice and their hearts shall be strong, and they shall prevail over all that dwell in the world. And God will accept their atonement, and because they took refuge in His holy name they shall indeed see salvation at His hand.

I thought this was interesting
"because they took refuge in His holy name they shall indeed see salvation at His hand" Sometime I think is that a literal reflection Salvation or the end times being written out on the internet through the branches. I wonder if this indeed reflects the recording of the progress of the end times through a keyboard, at his hand to the first places. Perhaps being guided through the mystery.  This does include the message attached to the first places.

Also we are taking refuge in his name and being guided by Jesus.

from Paul


But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend to heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down) "or 'Who will descend into the deep?'

Just sounds like another reflection of translation and connection to the deep like a major discovery.


Page 224 -- The Creator Sons seem to possess a spiritual endowment centering in their persons, which they control and which they can bestow, as did your own Creator Son when he poured out his spirit upon all mortal flesh on Urantia. Each Creator Son is endowed with this spiritual drawing power in his own realm; he is personally conscious of every act and emotion of every descending Son of God serving in his domain. Here is a divine reflection, a local universe duplication, of that absolute spiritual drawing power of the Eternal Son which enables him to reach out to make and maintain contact with all his Paradise Sons, no matter where they may be in all the universe of universes.

Page 381 -- And when such a life of spirit guidance is freely and intelligently accepted, there gradually develops within the human mind a positive consciousness of divine contact and assurance of spirit communion; sooner or later "the Spirit bears witness with your spirit that you are a child of God." Already has your own spirit told you of your kinship to God so that the record testifies that the Spirit bears witness "with your spirit," not to your spirit.

Page 1130 -- Religion is functional in the human mind and has been realized in experience prior to its appearance in human consciousness. A child has been in existence about nine months before it experiences birth. But the "birth" of religion is not sudden; it is rather a gradual emergence. Nevertheless, sooner or later there is a "birth day." You do not enter the kingdom of heaven unless you have been "born again" -- born of the Spirit. Many spiritual births are accompanied by much anguish of spirit and marked psychological perturbations, as many physical births are characterized by a "stormy labor" and other abnormalities of "delivery." Other spiritual births are a natural and normal growth of the recognition of supreme values with an enhancement of spiritual experience, albeit no religious development occurs without conscious effort and positive and individual determinations. Religion is never a passive experience, a negative attitude.

Page 1112 -- Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the (Spirit of the Father) dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth--universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the heavenly worlds.

 Isaiah 42:1-4

Behold my Servant, whom I hold fast; my chosen, in whom my heart    delights.

I set my spirit upon him, he will declare the judgment to the nations.

He will not cry out nor raise his voice; he will not shout in the streets.

A bruised reed he will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not quench.

Faithfully he will declare the judgment.

He will not faint and he will not be crushed, until he has set the judgment on the earth.

And the coastlands wait for his instruction.


Post  Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:38 am


Isaiah 49:8-13
At the time of my favor I will answer you; in a day of my salvation I will help you. I have kept you. I will give you as a covenant for the people, to rouse up the earth, to cause to inherit the forgotten heritages.
Saying to the prisoners, 'Come forth,' and to those who are in darkness, 'Show yourselves.' They shall feed along the way; on all the bare heights shall be their pasture.
They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither scorching wind nor sun shall smite them. For he that has pity on them

It all about this journey, everything, to the letter concerning all aspects, the forgotten heritages and the Covenant, the Seven Commands.

This is it, its totally confirmed in my view.


In the Dead Sea Scrolls "the fount of understanding was hidden and the secret of truth . . ."



shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.

Behold, these shall come from far: and lo, these from the north and from the west; and
these from the land of Sinim.

Sing, for joy, O heavens; and exalt, O earth! Break forth O mountains into singing. For Yahweh has comforted his people, and will have compassion on his afflicted

They way I see the North and the West are the two major locations of the submerged first cities, The Persian Gulf Cities and the 1stEden of Cyprus. The discovery and Revealing of these places mainly the Persian Gulf submerged cities comes from the Land of of Oz. the east. The journey is a path and has messages that point to a transition into a new Epoch before light and life.

The Springs of the water, is reflective of the truth found in the books guiding the discoveries along the way, the journey. The journey will exalt the glory of the Lord in the discovery and journey. It will make a way and a path. The knowledge of the places will come from afar and from different areas of the planet. The truth fragments in the books of all religion is the guiding water coming from the springs of truth.

Here is a link that I have been exploring.


Through me has Thou illumined the faces of full many,
And countless be the times Thou hast shown Thy power through me.
For Thou hast made known unto me
Thy deep, mysterious things,
And hast shared Thy secret with me and so shown forth Thy power;
And before the eyes of full many
this token stands revealed,
That Thy glory may be shown forth, and all living know of Thy power.

Again all reflections of the journey top the ancient places all in metaphor to the deep and mysteries things and a token is to be discovered and uncovered which stands to be revealed and also confirms the research undeniably.

Its about the Seven commands or a major artifact including the cities.

The Token is the Seven Commands!!

more about tokens


Psalm 65:8 (Read all of Psalm 65)

They also that dwell in the uttermost parts are afraid at thy tokens: thou makest the outgoings of the morning and evening to rejoice


Genesis 9:12 (Read all of Genesis 9)

And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:



Genesis 9:13 (Read all of Genesis 9)

I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.



Genesis 9:17 (Read all of Genesis 9)

And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

The Seven Commands is the token to be remade to the remnant for the future generations. There is a constant reminder in the past about the token of the Covenant. I believe this journey and discovery of the lost Seven commands is the token for a new covenant.



2 Thessalonians 1:5 (Read all of 2 Thessalonians 1)

Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:



Here is a search on Discovered to see some reflections



2 Samuel 22:16

And the channels of the sea appeared,
the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils

Its seems to reflect the discovery of the foundations and associated with a major rebuke from the Lord.

Again we see the same reflection in metaphor of the discovery of the foundations in Ezekiel



Ezekiel 13:14

So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the
foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the Lord




Psalm 29:9

The voice of the Lord maketh the hinds to calve, and discovereth the forests: and in his temple doth every one speak of his glory.





Here is perhaps an African Dogon Connection to the journey in symbolism and uncanny connections.

I thought here could be a physical connection to the 8 to 1, 1 to 8, it could be this Aliester was pointing to.


Post  Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:58 pm


I saw the video, there where some parts that I found very interesting and from my prospective in my research I found a few interesting parallels.

A couple of points that I found of interest was the, the 40 day period between Jesus' death and the destruction of Jerusalem and that judgment or the end of the world system from what I can tell the judgment was from one Sabbath to another in a week, like in Enoch.
However, I think they are mistaken in there arithmetic because 33AD - 70 AD = 37 years. However they must have another calculation?

However I do find in my research that the 40 day period is significant in the last time in the process over time..

Sometimes I wonder, as we reflect on the past whether the 40 days as mentioned everywhere is significant in the last days and as also with the Sabbath or the Seventh, seven. Perhaps the importance of it is really a type for the future and last reality construct before change with all the components and characters in place, in name and in time period, the 40 days, the same situation we see with Noah, the 40 days it rained on the earth. I'm thinking that the whole bible from end to end really points into the past only to point to the future and the final construct with parts in place.

I don't think going to church on Sundays is the point but is a reflection of the future with God telling us from the past to remember this as this mindal image is significant to the transition and its purpose in the future..

Like the sorting of Genes of the Seed of corruption through a process or time period.

You know the world have no idea of what s coming up, in the situation as I see now we have the components in place in the right sequence. maybe!

Even if this was the right construct that Im presenting, I think all Christians will reject it and go with there man made doctrine from their pastor who virtually knows nothing from all there espousing that I read on the net. This maybe a very bad mistake.

Ah the guy who put the video together should back to math classes.

all the best

Post  Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:18 am The claim of the lands of the Father

Ive been thinking about this lately and in faith.

I claim for the Father and Paradise, Dalamatia City the first capital, 1stEden the second capitol and the 2 Dilmuns to the possession of the Father and the office of the Messiah unto his purposes in the use of these places. The ancient cities and the messages in scripture are based on the Urantia Book fragments including all the books of religion.

Just staking the claim for Jesus, the ancient places for his purposes in the Planetary administration of this planet for Paradise purpose.

As far as I'm concerned the Father in Paradise owns these places. I'm sure the Angel of the Gate stands at the ready, ever ready. I'm sure the holy ones stand there gilded in light of the Father from within. I believe he takes possession of all the ancient places and therefore creates a legal basis of the places for paradise purpose.

Essentially The Father is in possess of what was his, especially the 1st and 2nd temples of the Father from eras unknown to man.

The spirit of the lands of the Father is Mateship it is a term used in the Land of Sinim that reflects friendship and loyalty between brothers and sisters or Mates, a term used in the culture of the land of Sinim. Mateship (friendship) is the technique that is used between brothers that evolved during the early convict days and during the early settlement periods in the building of the new land Sinim, people bonded together as mates in order to survive, the Mateship culture has continued to exist to today an is the main reason for the success of Sinim.

This same culture of Mateship on the highest level of appreciation exists right up to the Paradise deities and is the basis for the runnings of all the universes However, its is not a club but an expression of love for all and of one another in order to edify him and to give him strength in a time of need and to help him which includes all brothers and sisters. Its part of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of mankind Its open to all and in my mind is the spirit of which this research is given, based on Love for the Father and Mateship for my fellow brother. This spirit of mateship is the base foundation in the lands of the Father just claimed.

all the best mate!


Post  Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:48 am

Jewish interpretations of Isaiah 53

Those that are in favour of a messiah:

Maimonides, a letter to Yemen, 12th century


What is to be the manner of Messiah's advent, and where will be the place of his appearance? . . . And Isaiah speaks similarly of the time when he will appear, without his father or mother of family being known, He came up as a sucker before him, and as a root out of the dry earth, etc. But the unique phenomenon attending his manifestation is, that all the kings of the earth will be thrown into terror at the fame of him -- their kingdoms will be in consternation, and they themselves will be devising whether to oppose him with arms, or to adopt some different course, confessing, in fact, their inability to contend with him or ignore his presence, and so confounded at the wonders which they will see him work, that they will lay their hands upon their mouth; in the words of Isaiah, when describing the manner in which the kings will hearken to him, At him kings will shut their mouth; for that which had not been told them have they seen, and that which they had not heard they have perceived.



The Babylonian Talmud

The Messiah -- what is his name?...The Rabbis say, the leprous one; those of the house of Rabbi say, the sick one, as it is said, "Surely he hath borne our sicknesses." (Sanhedrin 98b)

from here


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Concerns about the current end time perceptions

Hey Joer

Thanks for the reply, your post made alot of sense to me.

Ive been reviewing a few things about end times and in what Jesus said about it. As you probably know Ive been trying to work this end time thought out and reading into the majority of scriptures imply the transition seems to be severe. But then you read this piece in the below and it appears to be about transition and it seems to me that the transition doesn't seem to be as severe looking from what Jesus says.

Here is the piece from the UB



"Today you see this fulfilled before your eyes. But you shall not see the remainder of the Psalmist's prophecy fulfilled, for he entertained erroneous ideas about the Son of Man and his mission on earth. My kingdom is founded on love, proclaimed in mercy, and established by unselfish service. My Father does not sit in heaven laughing in derision at the heathen. He is not wrathful in his great displeasure. True is the promise that the Son shall have these so-called heathen (in reality his ignorant and untaught brethren) for an inheritance. And I will receive these gentiles with open arms of mercy and affection.

All this loving-kindness shall be shown the so-called heathen,
notwithstanding the unfortunate declaration of the record which intimates that the triumphant Son `shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.'

The Psalmist exhorted you to `serve the Lord with fear'--I bid you enter into the exalted privileges of divine sonship by faith; he commands you to rejoice with trembling; I bid you rejoice with assurance. He says, `Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish when his wrath is kindled.' But you who have lived with me well know that anger and wrath are not a part of the establishment of the kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men. But the Psalmist did glimpse the true light when, in finishing this exhortation, he said:
`Blessed are they who put their trust in this Son.'"

I was interested in this piece

My Father does not sit in heaven laughing in derision at the heathen. He is not wrathful in his great displeasure. True is the promise that the Son shall have these so-called heathen (in reality his ignorant and untaught brethren) for an inheritance. And I will receive these gentiles with open arms of mercy and affection.

All this loving-kindness shall be shown the so-called heathen, notwithstanding the unfortunate declaration of the record which intimates that the triumphant Son `shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.'

As you now much doctrine has been built around these erroneous pieces highlighted by Jesus. Especially the dashing to pieces with a rod of Iron. It seems to me that the transition will be based on revelation rather than Smashing to pieces the brass , the clay and the gold and so forth.

Based on the above you could throw out much doctrine about the end times.

I was wondering what you thought about the above piece. I can recall about 4 books that rely on this pieces, especially Daniel. I'm thinking are they wrong the books and interpretation that use this reference as a basis??

Now I'm thinking if its through revelation and not through something severe like what is mentioned in Judgment or even the whole notion of judgment, then I think what would Jesus reveal that would jolt man into thinking about eternal issues of himself.

I just look at the example of the ancient places and the journey to it including 1stEden. I just feel the support to the the places from humanity in general, on the overall is just simply pathetic. For something so big as this I think the response to these places and has been just dismal failure in terms of enthusiasm and lets go there and do something. Nothing!

Apart from you and 7 others in there encouragement that's about all.

I honestly cant believe it! Nothing against no one. There are so many pearls out there I couldn't even give them away that's how hopeless it is! Everyone else are just fence sitters.

So I figure if this kind of things falls in a heap in a revelatory sense. I just wonder if man would even recognize Jesus if he came back?? I think to myself what about all the evil people are just brimming to the top of this vessel.

Jesus comes back on a cloud with an army and then its business as usual with him trying to convince people about a revelation and no justice is meted out clearing the decks.

Anyway see what happens but that comment has been on mind.

Jeez and what about the &^%hole gene and those people who go around murdering everyone and all that rubbish that go es on everywhere on the planet.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: The Wishlist

No worries Joer

No worries maybe I over speculated and perhaps the research stands to be corrected in light of what I have read and what I see now in the Urantia piece from Jesus.

I suppose the best thing to do is to sit on the fence and see how it develops. Least there are a few target there, it might take many years before someone goes out there.

I must admit Ive been pushing the research hard and maybe the universe is telling to slow down and take it easy. I gotta have a laugh at mans enthusiasm when he thinks he finds something of great worth as in the pearl of great price. Be it right or wrong you just got love it, mans willingness upon what he thinks is a great discovery to take it the enth degree, to have a go, try it out, test the range. Least I gave it shot or least I tried to get to the truth of the matter.

I suppose you never know if you don't have a go! in trying to piece this final mystery together. I must say it has been an exhilarating journey but has cost me everything I suppose. There is just nothing left except this daunting that I see. Just this wall of barrier that one has to overcome on the spiritual level and to carry all this disappointment and then cope to overcome.

You know there is no love in this or very little of it. It just sapped up into stress and the material, there definitely no seventh part at all, on this planet now, maybe in the future but certainly not now. Its a really cruel and hard world there joer my friend.

I just hope Jesus comes soon I really hope soon man. There is just no way out of this planet death destruction except for Jesus.

He is the only way out, there is absolutely no way out of this except for Jesus to come soon. How it happens I have no idea.

I honestly thought the ancient places was the key to the advent but it might be just a sightseeing venture where someone will just make money out of it and reduce it some unworthy spectacle.

I would certainly like to plug away with the ancient places but I think Ive taken to the limit at this stage. The next stage would be to investigate this properly for that I don't have funds and that would have to be raised. But since no has faith and worried in there own lives this will go for years and years. I'm not sure if I have the time so it better that it out there now least its a thread that can be taken to the next level.

However uncovering truth there is risk and who is willing for that step in faith. I chuckle at the various complexities to this.

Well if no one goes there III have to create a business from nothing and from behind that will raise the funds to go out there and prove the location and the possible artifacts. It would take a literal miracle for me to create a successful business as all previous attempts ended in nothing. However, I must say it was my fault as I got so involved in this I threw everything away business meant very little to me as I was inspired in this journey to the ancient places. Even though I maintain a remnant of my business it still would raise the funds.

I say to myself how could I raise the funds, so I think what about a prospectus for an expedition and make a business out of the journey that which would finance the other expeditions on the table. But then does it become like like everything else am I soiling this by making it a business., I suppose it depends on what is within me. That would be the test, for me.

Well this is where I come to the point in guidance from my brothers. Would I be right in putting a prospectus together in raising the funds to finance a expedition and production of the journey to the ancient places.

And lets say that if it was a successful thing and went basically according to the plan the complete production would raise capital to input funds to further translate and print the Ub in all languages. So if there is a surge in demand for the book in light of the presentation which I feel would be the funds would be there to cope with supply for the book. This is done so the information relevant to the journey, the UB is readily available for printing and supply. Further I would like to inject funds into the Free Schools project, an educational model that I saw at the Ub conference just recently that helps the very poor kids to get an education. That would be wish list and to get out of debt.

If that stage is successful, it would also finance another expedition to lets say the Dilmuns and then to 1stEden to complete another great mystery.

I feel that as reach stage is completed and proven then the great truth will arise step by step that which over time will become a great revelation in a timeline sequence. Step by Step, block by block and with expeditions to the cities. Now if its true we should find undeniable evidence in each location and if we lift up the Seven Commands, that would be icing on the cake.

Then I figure further, if this is the sequence of events that should occur and if the revelation is so strong as we accomplish each stage then the power of the revelation becomes greater or the spiritual gravity increases and then as this magnifies further than there must comes a point at the end that most of the planet would welcome Jesus with open arms all man. that would be the advent

I figure if end times, like what is currently being espoused is not quite right and maybe wholly based on error in its outlook well maybe this journey in the discovery cycle in the physical may be the revelatory sequence of the revelation of transition. Maybe the army of Jesus, the angels are here to increase the the gravity of the revelation but not in destructive way as perceived in the books.

Before I was feeling really lousy and now that I'm at the end of this post I feeling a bit better.

Bless you Joer and thanks for your kinds words and time taken to reply with your thoughts. I really pray that we accomplish the highest things for our time here.

There is only one nagging thought what about the mockers and scoffers and the deniers and the things Gods says about them?? All well remains to be seen in the future in what pans out.


the quran

O ye unto whom the Scripture hath been given! Believe in what We have revealed,
confirming that which ye possess. (4:47 Pickthall)

Post  Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:29 am


Its been a little perplexing but I had to reevaluate some of the end times thoughts Ive had.

Here in this link is a post in which I highlighted a text in the UB which had made me think again about the whole process.

This is where I'm up to. Maybe its through revelation that transition will occur. so therefore in this time all Im going to do is raise finds for a proposed expedition I would like to put together to explore the lost City of Dalamatia and the Seven commands which could lay in the Dilmuns. I think I have done enough research and its time to begin the physical journey. Im not sure when rapture happens so in the meantime I going this direction.

Soon enough there will be a prospectus through the normal channels, that if Jesus doesn't come again in the meanwhile. The only way to conclude this journey is to find the places and verify them. I think the threads have legs however I'm not sure about a few things as expressed in the above link.

Anyway if Endtime is through revelation and not through annihilation judgment based on possible error then I'm going for the submerged ancient cities starting with Dalamatia. I'm not waiting for anything and the quicker this is done the closer we are to Jesus coming back. I figure mankind has to pull his finger out and do something like trek for discovery and not just wait for some rapture to occur so its convenient for man without exhausting all possibilities.

Hey I found this on a Christian site denouncing the Quran. However I saw something that confirms this journey and the process. I think this scripture hold weight and gravity and I believe relates to this whole journey, its a test apparently to see if this comes form God.



O ye unto whom the Scripture hath been given! Believe in what We have revealed,
that which ye possess.
(4:47 Pickthall)

I believe the above is a remnant scripture from Abnerian (Eastern Christian church) period that was overrun by Islam, its a piece I believe was incorporated from the earlier scriptures from Abner which perpetuated through the following of the 70 in Philadelphia.

Philadelphia is was the headquarters of the Eastern Christian Church headed and started by Abner and the 70. Special mention is mention revelation about this church during the end times. Jesus was in direct contact with Abner during his ministry unlike Paul at that time. Many of the Baptist followers did follow Abner to Philadelphia and that explains the variation. Unfortunately the church was overrun and persecuted even up to recent times where it was absorbed into the Catholic precepts thus being the Maronite Church. But its origins comes from Philadelphia through Abner as in the Eastern branch of the Christian Church. Unfortunately Abner and Paul had a falling out on the trinity concept and Abner felt rather upset about it. His end days was in solitude and I think he felt a little bitterness towards the disagreement.

Perhaps a disagreement that still perpetuates today.

Might as well have a look at the scripture in revelation see if there are any clues.



And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth
It appears there is a key to a mystery that opens a door. Success in opening the door has to with acknowledgment and living the life as recommended by Jesus or the Father. The mystery has all to with the Crown which I believe is the treasurehouses.

pillar in the temple of my God I find this interesting, What  temple these days has a pillar in the middle, it appears that the new city and capital will transfered to the new City Jerusalem. It appears that the research will stand and the original eastern branch of the Church will arise again and be blessed upon the new truth.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie
Hard to make out this one but it appears that forces that overtook Abners church of the East in Philadelphia was overrun by other forces who adopted many of the writings in the Quran over time this I feel includes the Hadiths. I can see many parallels and similar terms like the Most High and so forth. However, today we see extreme forces within Islam religion being led to death and destruction based on erroneous interpretation to the ideas within the scriptures. I believe its this extreme force who are led by false ideas including interpretation actually represent this false church spoken about in revelation through their actions of terror. The one that overcome are the ones that avoides instruction leading to the path of terror, dead and destruction.

It would be wise of governments to dis involve themselves in terror, if they are involved, Government can make agreements but extreme forces aren't interested in agreements except their own rule through imposition.

hour of temptation, Could be related to being tempted in violence and terror whereby there is a reward in Paradise for giving up one own life to murder other people particularly innocent people. This temptation is false and does not represent Paradise.

I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

I believe the door is the path to the great mystery, the journey to submerged places, the keys that I am finding We as in the Father is unlocking the door, the path of safety. Soon as the door opens, the mystery unlocked it cannot be shut again. There is great reward who walk through the door in faith and has not denied the father in the journey, the safe passage through the Abyss. As we hear the voice coming from the Abyss.

which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. It appears to be a group of religious people who falsely claim they represent the Father and denounce the Jews and claim there falseness, its a virtual hijacking of a religion. Apparently to them the truth shall be revealed and they will be seen to repent according to these scriptures.

thy crown The places are the crowns of the planet in truth and the reward is the crown.

to try them that dwell upon the earth Looks like there is a test involved in the process.

praise the lord

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:55 am    Post subject:

Thanks Joer that was a great post I found so much in that. And thanks RayOK I enjoyed the post to.

I think a great discovery presentation and further discoveries would be an excellent way to improve mans outlook.

Well I'm going to attempt that achieve that goal through these submerged exhibit the spiritual path and the findings and the expedition to the places and flash backs to the actual location of the Dalamatia City and the messages attached the ones that led me to the discoveries. Its how much do I reveal in the research as some of it is different. Maybe that could be reserved for a book however the website might be an ongoing thing.

See what happens


Post The Iranian leadership believes that they are now entering Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:41 pm



The Iranian leadership believes that they are now entering the Apocalyptic Age



The Iranian leadership believes that they are now entering the Apocalyptic Age
October 09, 2007

Speaking at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, the renown scholar and historian Bernard Lewis told his audience that Iranian President Ahmadinejad and the leadership of Iran believe they are now entering the Apocalyptic Age which will result in the triumph of their messianic figure.

Lewis said that Iran is a mortal threat and reminded those attending his lecture that Islam, like Judaism and Christianity, has an End Times scenario reminding them that holy war is a part of the Islamic religion and part of holy law. Lewis then added that the threat of many Iranians perishing in a war did not deter the Iranian leadership. They believe that death this way would give Iranians a free pass to the Islamic heaven.

Jimmy's Prophetic Prospective on the News

The thinking by the Iranian leadership that they are now entering the Apocalyptic Age actually conforms to the End Times scenario that is found in Bible prophecy.

The statement by the renown scholar and historian, Bernard Lewis, that Iranian President Ahmadinejad and Iran's leadership believe they are entering the Apocalyptic Age is evidence that the Islamic world does have an eschatology, a theology that has an End Times scenario. The outdated concepts of M.A.D (Mutually Assured Destruction) prevalent during the Cold War years, are irrelevant when it comes to Iran and its leadership. The Iranian president and his circle see such a scenario as an incentive, not a deterrent.

This apocalyptic desire of the radical Shiite Muslim is at the center of much of what's happening in the Middle East today and does fit into Bible prophecy. The ancient, Jewish, New Testament Prophet John wrote the book entitled, "The Apocalypse", or better known as the book of Revelation which describes the End Time Apocalyptic Age. Revelation 4:2 - 19:10 describes the seven year period of massive judgment on the face of the Earth. Revelation 19 describes the "Mother of all battles", "the Apocalyptic War", the Battle of Armageddon.

Ahmadinejad is correct, we are indeed entering the Apocalyptic Age.

Its interesting that Iran recognize change like we do.


Post  Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:10 pm

That's why I feel it is important that we go out there and prove this research as that might correct and displace false doctrine and interpretation that lead to death and destruction.

Any death and destruction of fellow mankind is against the family and is against Paradise. Paradise cannot help those bent on war and destruction.

That's what I reckon.

Its really important that mankind get motivated to find the truth of the matter in discovery rather than the opposite. A grand discovery would help man and prove a point.

Everything is ripe for a discovery and that's what motivates me explore and discover Dalamatia to put a stop to terrorism through enlightenment, its the the only way and all countries and governments have to be involved.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:12 pm    Post subject:  The Plan

Hey Joer

How you doing, bless you

Thanks for your suggestion as in a book before the expedition.

Ive been thinking about it. I think its a good idea but the book is really ongoing and isn't finished until the expedition and what comes after. This saga to the ancient places is not over.
Essentially the website and its tablets is the book.

What I would like to do is go out there in a small but capable boat with equipment to dive up to 100 meters. I would like to have underwater video capability. I also would like the use a small sonar that could be towed so that we can pin point the points of interest. Also a small R.O.V would be helpful so when we are not diving we have to the R.O.V to explore.

I would expect the trip to take 2 weeks to take footage but in addition I would like to present a daily video presentations on the progress of the expedition which would involve the research.

Each day a video presentation will be uploaded on Google video.

It will be no different to when Jesus sat on the boat teaching the multitude.

I can see the same construct here.

I can see this as a perfect construct, in the middle of no mans land outside of the 12 mile economic zones of all countries on the greatest mission of mankind in the physical discovery of the first temple. Where this great and discovery emanates from the Abyss.

As each day passes more and more information will come out as we journey and discover the first place.

The posts that will continue from the boat which would be akin to the voice coming from the abyss. How beautiful! Each day more and more information will come out.

That would be the flight to the sea of peace as we journey to the infinite garden in the Abyss and we, on the boat the discoverers will be the voice from the abyss on behalf of the Father in the Paradise. An engagement for peace and brotherhood of mankind from the abyss in the mystery and in the discovery on the run as we journey in faith.

Right on!!!!

Now with the movie I feel it will be a three part thing, the beforehand journey which includes the search through the scriptures including the journey to 1stEden and how the research continued from then.

Second, flash back to the time of Dalamatia how it originated, what its function was, who where the Sons of God, the fall , the default, and where did the loyal and disloyal ones go, all narrated and part acting, what Dalamatia was all about and cgi of the area with actors.

Third part is the the evolution of the expedition its journey and what it uncovers. This would include exploring 5 separate locations around Dalamatia City that are targeted including thoughts along the way.

All parts would be intermingled as we progress in the movie all parts running in parallel making connections along the way creating this huge revelation along the way. It would be like History, the beforehand journey and the discovery all in parallel and in harmony.

I would say it would be a 3-4 hour movie. The biggest revelation in the world thus far.

However all is verified and arouses interest there maybe a full scale proper expedition where in that one I would like to propose that we use a transparent submarine that I saw on Nova that can down to a depth of 300 meters.

That way we can get beautiful video images of the area.

This second expedition may happen after the first but before the movie depending if a major production company gets involved. But first we have to test the waters for them to have faith. in the journey, they, unlike us would need surety of success.

However, if everyone runs to the hills the footage and captions taken in the first expedition will be the movie and hopefully that will recover the investment.

That's if Jesus doesn't come back...i suppose!

I would want the movie to be in cinema quality as that's where its destined to, then after that the usual cable and TV distribution channels.

Then you have the expanded DVD with more footage and perhaps the research and other presentations.

After all that a book but it has to be at the end of all the adventures I have planned.

Because after that huge presentation on Dalamatia you have the Dilmuns, the Adamson civilization following the triangle/circle chevron and the completion of the 1stEden project which would be quite extensive but at that stage I would believe affordable.

It may happen that to get to 1stEden we have to go through the first places Dalamatia City.

Anyway that's the thoughts and the plan so far.


The Urantia Book

line 156:           2,000,000,000 years ago the earth began decidedly to gain on the moon. Always had the planet been larger than its satellite, but there was not so much difference in size until about this time, when enormous space bodies were captured by the earth. Urantia was then about one fifth its present size and had become large enough to hold the primitive atmosphere which had begun to appear as a result of the internal elemental contest between the heated interior and the cooling crust.

I was curious about the 2 space bodies that revolved around the earth including the moon.  It appears that these 2 bodies collided into the earth where upon the earth gained on the moon.  This seems to be conformed in the moon section of the video.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: lock out

I was curious, since I cant reply to Joer and RayOk. Why is Joers recent thread locked out.

Its just talk and ideas, why should there be harm to any one.

To see faith in action I would think is a good thing, what I cant understand is why faith in ideas and thoughts are locked out.

Anyway the places are open for all and will never be locked out the thoughts of man no matter what type of suppression occurs.

One thing for sure I know the Kingdom of Heaven wouldn't lock out anyone trying to find things pertinent to the glory of the Father ...thats for sure.

AAAh its just disgusting particularly when there is no reason offered just locked out.

Just like that, after good people put heart and soul in there posts.

Why dont you just delete the post it would be the same thing.

It only demonstrates that I am better on the end time forum where there is no lock out and I can witness to the UB and the all the other books.

I just see this as a blow to the freedom of expression and just short of persecution.

I cant believe a reply like this from the Urantia brothers in control.

You know I'm requested each year to present something at the UB conference which I do if I can make it there. They like what they see and how I go about things and they give support in spirit. But here I get lock out by some person.

Fair just the worst feeling and all I want to do is the will of the Father. Oh well I know I'm better of somewhere else. I think the end time forum is the last place and there a bit kinder and show respect even though always fighting with each other over the interpretation of doctrine.

I suppose this all a witness at the end of the day.

You know the funny thing is the thread "Dalamatia of the Gods" the thread that I have been working on the end time forum has a really high hit rate and I cant understand why since no one replies and it all leads to the Urantia Book through the places. I was recently told that the Urantia Book website that I direct hits to gets more hits from this work relating to this journey than anywhere else. Surely I must doing my job somewhere along the line to propagate the UB truth.

see ya later


No worries Ray


But at the end of the day I have no respect for the owner of this website and will not be around to be treated like a horses a....


Good luck in your moderation.


I mean to say people will always have different ideas.  Pity the owner of the web owner who doesn't agree.


Useless website good for nothing owners who are the rudest people I ever meant  not you rayOK  I really enjoyed your thinking and I liked Joers thoughts.  I thought what was presented was absolutely OK and was the most interesting thread going.


Wasn't a talkfest going in circles it was about doing something!


It doesn't bother me if you ban me, it will be the 2nd UB site, the other site I never even made a post  hahahaha.


Somebody must be very uncomfortable about what I'm doing and saying.  I say tough luck!  Buddy!  whoever it is you can run for the hills like everyone else!



Post Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:44 am

World's oldest wall painting unearthed in Syria 

I was really impressed by this article



World's oldest wall painting unearthed in Syria

By Khaled Yacoub Oweis Thu Oct 11, 12:05 PM ET


DAMASCUS (Reuters) - French archaeologists have discovered an 11,000-year-old wall painting underground in northern Syria which they believe is the oldest in the world.

The 2 square-meter painting, in red, black and white, was found at the Neolithic settlement of Djade al-Mughara on the Euphrates, northeast of the city of Aleppo, team leader Eric Coqueugniot told Reuters.

"It looks like a modernist painting. Some of those who saw it have likened it to work by (Paul) Klee. Through carbon dating we established it is from around 9,000 B.C.," Coqueugniot said.

"We found another painting next to it, but that won't be excavated until next year. It is slow work," said Coqueugniot, who works at France's National Centre for Scientific Research.

Rectangles dominate the ancient painting, which formed part of an adobe circular wall of a large house with a wooden roof. The site has been excavated since the early 1990s.

The painting will be moved to Aleppo's museum next year, Coqueugniot said. Its red came from burnt hematite rock, crushed limestone formed the white and charcoal provided the black.

The world's oldest painting on a constructed wall was one found in Turkey but that was dated 1,500 years after the one at Djade al-Mughara, according to Science magazine.

The inhabitants of Djade al-Mughara lived off hunting and wild plants. They resembled modern day humans in looks but were not farmers or domesticated, Coqueugniot said.

"There was a purpose in having the painting in what looked like a communal house, but we don't know it. The village was later abandoned and the house stuffed with mud," he said.

A large number of flints and weapons have been found at the site as well as human skeletons buried under houses.

"This site is one of several Neolithic villages in modern day Syria and southern Turkey. They seem to have communicated with each other and had peaceful exchanges," Coqueugniot said.

Mustafa Ali, a leading Syrian artist, said similar geometric design to that in the Djade al-Mughara painting found its way into art throughout the Levant and Persia, and can even be seen in carpets and kilims (rugs).

"We must not lose sight that the painting is archaeological, but in a way it's also modern," he said.

France is an important contributor to excavation efforts in Syria, where 120 teams are at work. Syria was at the crossroads of the ancient world and has thousands of mostly unexcavated archaeological sites.

Swiss-German artist Paul Klee had links with the Bauhaus school and was important in the German modernist movement.

Seems to me that civilization seem to be going back further in the latter times of the very ancient times.


The above is my latest image of Dalamatia. It appears that the city was laid out in a triangle fashion and you can see remnants of three co planar circles which are the same symbol as found in Vans highland headquarters where the Adamson civilization began and the very same Van is the person who constructed 1stEden before Adam and Eve arrived.

This very same 3 co-planar circles can also be found on the Acropolis Hill of 1stEden of Cyprus.

This is a perfect match to all 3 key places as in the 3 co-planar circles. In my mind there is no denying it

All the places match in symbolism even to the family tomb of Jesus and beyond.

all the best

The Path following Symbolism

Posted: Oct 14 2007, 01:57 AM

Hi Im Sevens,

Im new to this forum. I really love the Urantia Book and have always been curious about the ancient places.

For me the journey to the ancient places has been a 14 year journey from the time I first read about 1stEden and the other places with a burning desire to locate them.

I feel the journey began there however the search for the places in all the books started nearly 4 years ago. I was completely inspired by Robert Sarmasts expeditions to the location of 1stEden, so much so I began to research Enoch and a few other books.

It wasnt long that I began to discover that there where fragments in the books with many messages that I believe are pertinent to the places. As soon as I started to find these fragment I began to realize that this journey was huge. As the journey progressed in the books so did the discoveries along the way. Discoveries on all different levels with many path that branch out to the more recent places of relevance.

To date the journey has led me to the discoveries of 3 cities in the Persian gulf with the aid of NASA worldwind software.

I believe the cities are the 2 Dilmuns, the Nodite cities and Dalamatia City. There is also another place of interest Vans headquarters the home of the Adamson civilization.

From what I'm finding all these places are connected by symbolism in design.

The main symbols are the 3 co planar circles and the circle in the triangle symbol.

In the following are some images and links to demonstrate what I'm saying.

user posted image

Here is an image of the Adamson/Van highland headquarters, a hidden highland valley within a triangle from of the landscape where in the middle of it lays another hidden valley where I believe the tree of life was.

user posted image

In the following image is the 3 co-planar circles seen on the side of the highland hidden valley.

user posted image

The temple area

user posted image

Another places that connects to this places in the same symbolism is 1stEden of Cyprus. On top of the Acropolis Hill you see the same 3 co planar symbols as demonstrated in this image

user posted image

Now as you know the legends and myths and no doubt design was adopted by the Nodites after the fall of Dalamatia.

I believe this symbolism is related to the Nodites who perpetuated Dalamatia, Dilmun was known as the land of the immortals. I believe the circle in the triangle is evidence of the Dilmunite culture.

Here in the following image is what I believe is the original lst city of Dilmun with the foundations of Babel within a part triangle built on a isthmus.

user posted image

As we know the Andites came from Dilmun and lost there homelands and eventually migrated to Egypt as a result they built a memorial to the lost truth of a dying race, they ventured far and wide.

In the following image is triangle with a circle within. In fact its a double circle in a triangle, one within the other. This obviously is the mark of the Andites and reflects the symbol of lost Dilmun where the original Babel stood.

This symbol was found inscribed on the plug of the shaft of the great Pyramid built by Imhotep.

user posted image

user posted image

And here is another view of Babel

Using Bryce

user posted image

Here is a link on Babel

A link to Dilmun

and the journey in general

All the best Sevens


Posted: Oct 14 2007, 02:10 AM

My wishlist now is to explore the places and hope that it helps things along to a better world.

Incidently I have tested many doctrines within this journey through a 40 day test, putting up everything on the table and testing things through the timeline of the places.

The things that I expected never happened such a rapture and judgment. I don't know the time nor the hour but what I discovered through the Urantia Book at a crucial period in the timeline is that transition is going to be of a revelatory nature. I'm not sure if its going to be the fire and brimestone nothing exists there after. Im not sure if rapture is to occur until all things has been revealed and that means going out to the places to find truth and conclusion to the great mystery which brings us closer to transition.

I'm certain that if any transition that is to occur, its to be of a revelatory nature which embraces mystery and discovery of a enlightening form.

Its does mean this journey to the ancient places and is in line with the thoughts of Jesus. Non violent and revelatory through great discovery and points to truth of which all books come together in oneness and in harmony.

Reflecting upon it further its the same Triangle and circle is the same Chevron as on top the doorway of Jesus family tomb

user posted image

And it these symbols found in the tomb that leads to the Dalamatia vees.

user posted image

And believe it or not it even leads to Mars

user posted image

And even on Mars you can see the Chevron

user posted image

The same Chevron on Mars

user posted image

All the first places in design lead to the first places and even to Jerusem the systems capital.


Hey Vann

for sure, its a very exciting journey I presented something like this at a UB conference and it was beautiful

Here is a Google links to some bookmarks and info I put together with some thoughts

My personal dream is to construct a presentation based on these symbols going from one place to another place with flashbacks to the places in its glory and what happened there, then link in the expeditions of each place. Eventually, as we journey through history and through each place in the discovery I think the revelation should be quite clear and mysterious and beautiful.

Hey thanks Vann brother for your reply.

I am certainly not disappointed in the journey for all the things discovered. I'm rapt at the whole thing.

All the best

PostSun Oct 14, 2007 12:17 pm

A 500,000 year old presentation coming to light


This is basically the path that the presentation will take. In the following link is a summarized version of the presentation following symbolism throughout all the ancient places even up to Mars and beyond in design and symbolism.

(all links are bookmarked)

Hopefully this will include the physical expeditions and flashback to the times and connections with all the books and scriptures, to me this part of the office of the Messiahs projects and is part of kicking goals for the Father in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth! as it is in Heaven.

As absurd as it sounds this presentation is goes back to 500,000 years when Dalamatia City was first constructed.

Its a 500,000 year old presentation coming to light through the symbols they left behind that are intelligible and have value with our current say knowledge.


posted Oct 15 2007, 01:05 AM


QUOTE (Claude @ Aug 22 2007, 02:11 AM)

Hi everyone,

Some UB quote about the subject.

when this gospel of the kingdom shall have been proclaimed to all the world for the salvation of all peoples, and when the fullness of the age has come to pass, the Father will send you another dispensational bestowal, or else the Son of Man will return to adjudge the age. – 1915.2
-Said by Jesus around 2,000 years ago.

In view of this prospect, only time can reveal the future order of the visitations of the Paradise Sons of God on Urantia. – 227.3 -was said 77 years ago.

each new dispensation extends the horizon of revealed religion, and the Magisterial Sons extend the revelation of truth to portray the affairs of the local universe and all its tributaries.Paper 52 p. 594:7

But you should be wise regarding the ripening of an age; you should be alert to discern the signs of the times. You know when the fig tree shows its tender branches and puts forth its leaves that summer is near. Likewise, when the world has passed through the long winter of material-mindness and you discern the coming of the spiritual springtime of a new dispensation, should you know that the summertime of a new visitation draws near."

What do you think?


I thought that was real cool Claude. I think we are close.

I was really impressed with those quotes.

With the contact info I dont know much about that, the only contact Ive had is through the scripts and the images that my only experience, I'm not sure whether I have gone through a super natural experience. I'm probably really boring haha!

all the best, its interesting to read what others think.

I just read some more of the channeled stuff. Ahh I dont know Ive read much of this stuff years ago and never felt quite right as I feel in this journey. Its really been the same line for years and years. If its not one its from another in a different form and repackaged to represent something new. But really its the same same.

However In the urantia journey to the ancient places I see real things of the thinking of Jesus. But thats the way I think...thats just my thought one of billions.


Tsadiq, tsaddiq: Spiritual - Theosophy Dictionary on Tsadiq, tsaddiq

Tsadiq tsaddiq (Hebrew) He that has a righteous cause; innocent, just, righteous; a title of Melchizedek (King of righteousness), also applied to Noah (Genesis 6:9).

Some hold that Sadic (Tsaddiq) was the patriarch Noah (as also Melchizedek) and "the identity of Noah and Melchizedek being established, the further identity of Melchizedek, or Father Sadik, with Kronos-Saturn is proved also"; Blavatsky also terms Noah a kabir, the kabiri being sons of Sydic or Zedek, and shows Sadik as a regent over the eighth planet, Terra (SD 2:391).

(See also: Tsadiq, tsaddiq , Mysticism, Mysticism Dictionary, Body mind and Soul)

Dictionary on Melchizedek, malchi-tsedeq

Melchizedek malchi-tsedeq (Hebrew) [from melech king + tsedeq righteousness]

My king of righteousness; the king-priest of Salem, who met Abraham and blessed him (Genesis 14:18), alluding to the ancient king-initiates, the founders of races as well as the eponyms of cycles and the representatives of spiritual powers.

The name afterwards became generic (Psalms 110:4 and Hebrew 7 where a Messianic theory is hinted at), and Jesus is described as a high priest after the order of Melchisedek, which corresponds in mystical Judaism to the Order of Wisdom and Compassion in the theosophic philosophy. The term may signify the Maha-chohan, of the brotherhood of mahatmas, and also can stand for this Order itself or anyone who has reached a high degree of initiation therein.

Melchizedek is identified with Kronos or Saturn and with Noah (SD 2:391-2), the variant spellings Sadik, Sydik, and Zedec being given. As a type-figure he is connected with the sun and moon and the story of Jesus Christ (Lucifer 1:493, Feb 1888).


(See also: Melchizedek, malchi-tsedeq , Mysticism, Mysticism Dictionary)

The Office of the Messiah

Icon 1 posted 10-16-2007 02:40 AM   

Dalamatia City, The Triangle City


The above is my latest image of Dalamatia. It appears that the city was laid out in a triangle fashion and you can see remnants of three co planar circles which are the same symbol as found in Vans highland headquarters where the Adamson civilization began and the very same Van is the person who constructed 1stEden before Adam and Eve arrived.

This very same 3 co-planar circles can also be found on the Acropolis Hill of 1stEden of Cyprus.

This is a perfect match to all 3 key places as in the 3 co-planar circles. In my mind there is no denying it

All the places match in symbolism even to the family tomb of Jesus and beyond.

Sevens Tablet


You know the Triangle city with the temple (circle in the middle) links directly to the same symbol found in the plug of the shaft of the pyramid, the triangle with the diamond symbol.

Yep!!! it all links and therefore I reckon this also proves the location of Atlantis being the first place and the place of the Sons of Gods before they left there first estate.

There you have it mystery discovered and solved until the end.

Having a laugh!

Actually what we see could one part of a larger city and it could also be a double triangle city with the Vees connecting.

You know all the problem we face today all come from the downfall of this place. Judgment nor rapture occurred but an0other great discovery was made and all connects with symbolism which is the pathway between all the location of the first times.

It all comes from this place and the path as I found out during a crucial period in the timeline of this journey. The path to transition is through revelation first, before anything. I believe these discoveries will be part of the physical revelation all harmonized in all the books particularly the new book, The Urantia Book.

Anyway the images in the above is the real Atlantis.

circa 500,000-150,000 years old, the original Land of the Gods.

The real Elysian fields!

all the best

Icon 1 posted 10-16-2007 05:30 AM

The triangle of truth

The Paradise Symbolism or symbols of Paradise or "The Kingdom of Heaven".

These places where the capitols of the planet in the past epochs. They are all represented by a symbol engraved in the design of the city. All reflective of Jerusem and its circles, triangles and rectangles.

Combine all the capitals and you see the same reflectivity deriving from the Capitals even up to Paradise.

Even on Mars which to me the triangles Chevron seems to be non breather made. A large built up circle in a triangle chevron in amongst other obvious triangles.



1Enoch 46:2
He answered and said to me: This is the Son of man, to whom
righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwelt; and
who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed; for the
Lord of spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all
before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness.


Enoch 56  6 And they shall go up and tread under foot the land of His elect ones
[And the land of His elect ones shall be before them a threshing-floor and a highway.
7 But the city of my righteous shall be a hindrance to their horses.


1Enoch 58 5 And after this it shall be said to the holy in heaven
That they should seek out the secrets of righteousness, the heritage of faith:
For it has become bright as the sun upon earth,
And the darkness is past.


16 And all shall walk in his ways since righteousness never forsaketh him:
With him will be their dwelling-places, and with him their heritage,
And they shall not be separated from him for ever and ever and ever.

The Completion!

Unfortunately, terrorism envelopes 2nd Eden.

Look I can understand people being pissed of these days even feeling hate and anger, no problems at all. The problem with that is that its all to consuming for the soul of man and its leads to further conflict without any real resolve. However, I believe through this process to the ancient places of the first times and of the nature of this journey brings forth truth to the foreground and actually leads somewhere. Where all material can be researched and studied to what I believe satisfaction. Through a path of discovery and mystery that embraces all man and provides good guidance for the success of all mankind if he chooses.

Mans success in all this is truly in his hands for all sides of the fence it could bring about some positive correction in the aha experience.

I suppose that is the test for the individual man. Its not about the race of a man (how can a man help where he is born) but its whats within him that is the question of the Kingdom of Heaven and whether that is acceptable from what is discovered within man. Its all to do with his motives.

I suppose that is the test for the individual man

Anyway thats my thoughts

the best sevens


Posted: Oct 17 2007, 08:58 AM


Hey no worries.

I personally have never felt an affinity with messages as that can be purely the human mind. I would like to see things tested in what they say.

I feel if there is a transition happening and its related to revelation I feel there will be a definite increase in this so called channeling always keep in mind that there is the last rebel spreading all kinds of sophistries and the so called celestial messages could be part of it. In saying that I'm pointing fingers but i would like to see some demonstration by all the current groups. But the Rebel will never speak of the ancient places even though he knows about them. Because I feel that it points to the time when the game is up.

Another test of so called celestial message is why has no one, absolutely no one in these times predicted the discovery of all the ancient places of the first times and the world changing effect it will have on peoples regarding knowledge on all levels if its verified through numerous expeditions to all the places.

The only places where such a prediction exists is in the books related to religion. That's the only place.. Its in this light that I feel the books where sealed, sealed until the right time, right place with the right type of mind and persistence.

Anyway that's what I reckon.


I personally have never felt an affinity with messages as that can be purely from the human mind. I would like to see things tested and demonstrated in what they say.

I feel if there is a transition happening and its related to revelation I feel there will be a definite increase in this so called channeling always keep in mind that there is the last rebel spreading all kinds of sophistries and the so called celestial messages could be part of it. In saying that I'm pointing fingers but i would like to see some demonstration by all the current groups.

Another test of so called celestial message is why has no one, absolutely no one in these times predicted the discovery of all the ancient places of the first times and the world changing effect it will have on peoples regarding knowledge on all levels if its verified through numerous expeditions to all the places.

The only places where such a prediction exists is in the books related to religion. That's the only place. Not with channelers even with the current Christians they never found these places but the knowledge of the places was right under there noses for all those thousands of years. Its in this light that I feel the books where sealed, sealed until the right time, right place with the right type of mind and persistence and it will come from one source, not multiple sources like he read today.

Anyway thats what I reckon.

all the best



Posted: Oct 17 2007, 12:43 PM

Yeah, I remember that one and where is it at?

I know about NESARA, I think and sheldon nidle all have a similar affiliation. I'm not sure if its a happening thing in what they think.

Just dont know but all I know is that nothing has ever occurred that I could see as a solid demonstration. I'm Still waiting for the ships. I'm not sure if that is what is planned for transition.

just thoughts.


Posted: Oct 17 2007, 09:49 PM

Hey Van no problem, its the one percent that Im thinking of.

The way I see it. Is that if the so called messages breaks a persons faith with all talk and no demonstration that all man can study then I dont think its reliable.

I feel that CAL motives is through division and breaking faith and he does influence the ones who desire him where he can manifest his divisive plans.

I agree with you he has no effect on the ones who know truth.

All the best

Here is an interesting link Jane Lead 1699

The Signs of the Times

"The Signs of the Times"

One of Jane Lead's later published Prophetic Works, sent by God to the Nazarite Flock concerning the Signs of the Kingdom of Christ; both Forerunning, and Evidencing when it is come.  This was made public in 1699.

This manuscript from the 17th century has been out of print for a very long time and has been generally inaccessible to the general public.  It contains terminology and wording that are missing  from modern edited versions.

This on-line reproduction presents the old manuscript   "as close to the original as possible" — rendering  the text and appearance of the 1699 printing without any interpretation or commentary, — both of which are here left for the Spirit of Truth, who will always provide for the seeking and humble in heart. 




T I M E S:




Kingdom of Christ,




§ IX. Now as there were Signs literally given by Christ of his Coming, in his Kingly Power, which had its First accomplishment, in his coming to deliver his persecuted and oppressed Ones, and bringing down severe Judgments upon his and their Enemies, as in the Destruction of the Jews: So now it turns into that which is more Spiritual and Internal. For the Mystery of Iniquity does work after various ways and manners, in the Commotions of various Kingdoms: as First the Kingdom of the Beast, which consists in sensual pleasures, and Worldly advantages, stretching themselves upon their Ivory Beds, not only neglecting and disregarding; but opposing the Spiritual Kingdom, for fear it should supplant them of their transient and temporary Kingdom. And that this Supiness in Pleasure, and Voluptuousness, which do reign now so Universally at this Day, in a more than ordinary Manner, is indeed a Sign of the near Approach of the Overthrowing of the Kingdom of this Anitchristian Beast, may very well be hop’d: yea there can be no manner of doubt made hereof by them, who are wise to search into the Calendar of former ages, or who have but an Ear open to hear and receive what by Truth’s Infallible Oracle it self deliver’

Post  Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:42 pm


I was browsing away and I found this

Here is an interesting link

from 1699 turn of the century

"The Signs of the Times"
One of Jane Lead's later published Prophetic Works, sent by God to the Nazarite Flock concerning the Signs of the Kingdom of Christ; both Forerunning, and Evidencing when it is come. This was made public in 1699.
This manuscript from the 17th century has been out of print for a very long time and has been generally inaccessible to the general public.

It contains terminology and wording that are missing from modern edited versions.
This on-line reproduction presents the old manuscript "as close to the original as possible" — rendering the text and appearance of the 1699 printing without any interpretation or commentary, — both of which are here left for the Spirit of Truth, who will always provide for the seeking and humble in heart.

T H E  S I G N S  O F  T H E  T I M E S:


Kingdom of Christ,

§ IX. Now as there were Signs literally given by Christ of his Coming, in his Kingly Power, which had its First accomplishment, in his coming to deliver his persecuted and oppressed Ones, and bringing down severe Judgments upon his and their Enemies, as in the Destruction of the Jews:
So now it turns into that which is more Spiritual and Internal. (Remember my correction where I discovered that it was more revelatory preferred than bleek judgment on gentiles of annihilation However we still have to see what happens and I feel there could be correction but if there major severity attached to it, Im not sure! Rapture and Judgment I'm still thinking about??) For the Mystery of Iniquity does work after various ways and manners, in the Commotions of various Kingdoms: as First the Kingdom of the Beast, which consists in sensual pleasures, and Worldly advantages, stretching themselves upon their Ivory Beds, not only neglecting and disregarding; but opposing the Spiritual Kingdom, for fear it should supplant them of their transient and temporary Kingdom. And that this Supiness in Pleasure, and Voluptuousness, which do reign now so Universally at this Day, in a more than ordinary Manner, is indeed a Sign of the near Approach of the Overthrowing of the Kingdom of this Anitchristian Beast, may very well be hop’d: yea there can be no manner of doubt made hereof by them, who are wise to search into the Calendar of former ages, or who have but an Ear open to hear and receive what by Truth’s Infallible Oracle it self deliver

I thought there was interesting things in the link published in 1699 amazing! and with direct reference to the former places which I believe the discovery of them. All of of them!

Intriguing document from 1699 turn of the century how ironic 308 years in 2007 and here we are with the images of the former ages in our faces.

and this part in the beginning of the document.



The Seven Signs following them that enter into the Kingdom: or, the Sevenfold Process of the Perfect Regeneration.

full on mankind! See that Sevenfold and the Seven signs which to me are the journey and the discovery in the images of the ancient places and the mysteries that surrounds them.

more on jane lead

I think its worthwhile exploring



Hey I found this

A Fountain of Gardens
Jane Lead

I haven't got time to read right now but I just glanced at it and I saw already saw some things that might relate to the journey.

Foundations means knowledge and the gardens are the first temples of previous ages.

I saw Melchizedek name used so it could have many clues to what we are seeing and this manuscript could be a timely thing.

It will be interesting to read when I get back.

Here is one fragment outstanding



January 5. 1678.

THIS Morning the Holy Spirit was still in a free way of Parly, upon the weighty concern, tending unto this Transmutation. Declaring it to be the full Consummation of a fixed Restoration, that giveth immediate Entrance into Glorification. But then came in this Query to be answered, If it should be possible, for any to attain to this Resurrection-Body, answerable to that, in which our Lord did ascend into Glory, what should any one do with such a Transparent Body, to walk and converse amongst such, as yet retain their Vile Corporeal forms? They could, nor would not be able to bear their Persons. So that without there could be a general Transformation, there could be no consistency, betwixt what is Terrestrial and Celestial: the one is suited for the Earth, the other for Heaven; and only mete to enter into the Eternal Mystery. This was a considerable Objection, which I humbly refer’d to that which answereth on God’s part. Thus it was said, that such among Mortals, as should be counted worthy of this Immortality, and such as should be appointed hereunto, for some peculiar and eminent work to transact in this Principle for the Lord; know this, they shall not be without their Change of Raiment, and shall have ability to put off and on their AEthereal Body, as occasion requires. For thus Christ did after his Resurrection, or else his Disciples would have been terrified at his presence, who so frequently did visit them, and did eat Corporeal Food, as before his Crucifixion, and yet of a surety had, in that 40 Days time, free Egress and Ingress into the Mystery of the Fathers Glory: and when he had put on his Celestial Body, he could then pass among all the Angelical Thrones. But when he had yet business of the Father further to dispatch, he could draw over the veil of Humanity, for consistency with Creatures that are in their Earthly Bodies. So from hence the teaching Unction did prove to me the possibility hereof, that such a Power should be assumed by such Enochs, as should closely walk with God, in order to this Translated State; For it was said he walked with God many Years, (as it may be believed) to appear and disappear in the World, before God took him fully up into the Mystery.

Interesting piece and has many markers to the journey, Enoch's mention, consummation of times, came on the Earth and left to be taken up in the mystery! Also the 40 days time mention. I thought that was significant. and related directly to the mystery, Egress and Ingress whatever that means.

And here is another very strong clues which I believe relates to the recovery of the Seven Commands as the stone that will change things. The 7 commands would be the physical stone of the "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth. Delivering truth and a reminder of how we should conduct ourselves.



The Stone of the Kingdom.

IN the Night after my first Sleep, somewhat I saw, like a round Ball, mixed with all manner of Colours very oriental, and it darted down from an invisible Region, to the Earth, where it seemed to sink in. After which it was said to me, that this was the Stone, upon which the Kingdom of Heaven was founded.

Then this Word further did Spring: Inviting to be strong, and to hold fast those precious things, which are laid in, for the transparent Temple of the Holy Ghost; in order to that Kingdom, that will be all consisting of God’s Omnipotency, in this Resurrection-Day, when the flying Banner of almighty Power shall it self display

The word did spring is the discovery and the journey, the Seven commands are foundations of truth in the Kingdom of Heaven. Its related to resurrection day and provides safe passage and is an example of the Father Omnipotence. It will be a witness. The banner of the Father will fly on that day. The Banner of Jesus. Also shows there is symbolism involved which is directly related to the symbolism found and connected in each place of the first times and past Epochs.


I saw a short clip of him singing.

I think the days of the cult like him are over.

The truth can be had without following a person in that way.

Im not into people like that, Ive seen a few at close at hand, somehow they have this influence over people to give them all they have for some false hope that there doing the cause of Jesus where as in truth these people are there just feathering there own bed. Off course they find justification in doing this tripping out people on a emotional blackmail set up.

I cant stand those people. I remember I gave a Urantia Book to such person and all he said was that would destroy my group.

I was shocked but said nothing. He revealed himself in that moment.

I reckon

posted Oct 19 2007, 10:50 AM

Hey Colter,

I sure would like the top atheist to come on an expedition to Dalamatia City with me, I would want him to be by my side as we sift through the evidence. I think it would be good, I even tried to contact Richard Dawkins, I think that his name! I even invited him once through an email and told him about the places and that it would prove God if we discovered the cities as per Urantia Book and as well lifted the Seven Commands.

I reckon that would put a real dent into the unbelievers Armour if that occurred. Also when I listen to them they are so shallow but then again some Christian pastors especially some of the TV ones are really shallow and are in constantly in repetition, in subliminal loop to sink the message in your skull but there on the other end of the range.

Hi Claude.

Ahh I don't Cal is destroyed that will only happen at adjudication by the Ancients of Days, perhaps the source of those channels where from Cal himself ...maybe.. I think channeled message seem inconsistent is just not worth it and dont demonstrate anything but confusion and disappointment.

I don't maybe I could be shallow but I just believe in the Urantia complete. To me its just of stuff that would keep me going for a lifetime.

I don't trust channeled message at all particularly when its inconsistent with the Urantia Book. However from what I understand is that Satan was taken into custody at the arrival of the Urantia Book. I'm not sure where it is but there somewhere.

all the best


The following I found quite alarming and if its the truth of the matter, seems to be prophecy coming to pass. Considering all that is going on even in the discovery of things and synchronicity of it and then you have this.

I really ask myself. What is Iran doing? I'm sure they now everything even the research. Are they tempting God to react or the 12 Imam that there expecting!


The Israeli media says President Bush's warning of WWIII could be the Biblical War of Gog and Magog
October 18, 2007

The Israeli media, referring to the statements made by President Bush about a nuclear Iran that would mean WWIII, the two major television channels in Israel in their newscast, featured Gog and Magog maps of the likely alignment of nations in that potential conflict.

Channels two and ten, showing the world map, sketched the basic alignment of the two opposing axes in a coming war in a manner evoking association of the Gog and Magog prophecy centered on the Holy Land and Jerusalem which appears in the book of Ezekiel in the Bible. In a surprise visit to Russia by Israeli PM Ehud Olmert, the Israeli leader discussed with the Russian President Vladimir Putin the Russian-Iranian partnership as well as Russia's continued supply of weapons to Syria.

Jimmy's Prophetic Prospective on the News

A discussion of the Biblical war of Gog and Magog on Israeli television in reference to President Bush's statement about Iran and WWIII is a precursor to the End Times scenario that can be found in Bible prophecy.

In the newscast on two of the main television channels in Israel, the journalists sounded more like prophecy teachers than they did newscasters. These media people showed world maps revealing what they believed would be the basic alignment of nations in a present-day potential conflict which would include Iran and other Middle Eastern nations that have a working relationship with Russia.

This report of the potential for WWIII and the connection to Gog and Magog, is right out of the pages of Bible prophecy. The ancient Jewish prophet Ezekiel wrote 2,500 years ago of a major conflict that would include both Iran and Russia plus the other Middle Eastern nations in an alignment against Israel, Ezekiel 38. The Jewish prophet revealed that this major conflict would happen at a time when there was a peace in place in the Middle East, Ezekiel 38:8, 11, describing a time when Israel is dwelling safely in the land.

The stage is being set for this prophetic drama to be played out, the actors are quickly moving into place, the lights are dimming and the curtain is about to go up.


Post  Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:28 pm

Here is another piece with reference to the Abyss and the lake of where it came from.



January 7. 1678.

The Date of Time.
THIS Night I was in much conflict, concerning the time of this Spiritual Kingdom, as to the time, when it might appear, whether or no to any it was near. And it was thus answered by an internal Word, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven so cometh in, as the Evil Spirit is cast out: this kind as it is written goeth not out, but by Fasting and Prayer. So verily this Kingdom to no one will be manifested, but by great Abstinence, from what props up, and does nourish the Earthly and Satanical Kingdom. When you see that fall,
as Lightning into its own Abyss, and Lake from whence it came, then ye may conclude the Kingdom of God is at the Door. For which Pray, with all manner of Prayer, and Supplication through the Spirit.

I thought that was interesting and seems to reflect to character of the journey. Remember one of the Dilmuns is a city in a lake and Nostradamus who relates it to the Elysian fields.

and this one was interesting to



The Dragon may well fight against this Truth, and may raise Storms of Unbelief, for when ever this Transmuting Stone of Wonder does open upon any one it’s Mystery, such a blow will be given to his Kingdom, as shall not only shake it, but make it fall as a Mill-Stone into his own Bottomless Lake. For hereby Victory will be over Death, Hell, and Sin, and the Curse will be removed out of this Principle, and the Kingdom of Purity, and Power, and everlasting Joy brought in.

and this piece is interesting about the transitional period and the certain characteristics that we are familiar with.



But upon whom will it come to hurt? only them which are found out of the Ark. For I must let you know from that Spirit, that revealeth things to come, that before the last general Day of Judgment shall come, this Deluge shall come at Christ’s third Coming, and another mighty Noah will be found, who, in and by Faith, shall raise and build an Ark, which no Flames can devour, no more than the Waters could prevail upon the first Ark. Elijah with his Fiery Chariot will also come, before this great and notable Day of Christ’s third Coming, to shew to some the way for to escape out of this Corporeal State, into that other Principle of the one pure eternal Element. From whence the Lord, the mighty God, and Saviour with all his Saints in his time will be revealed. But know there will be in this later Day, when Christ shall appear, such an Ark, that will be all of refined Gold for a Harbour, and as a City, upon which the Name of everlasting Life, Power, and Might will be Written. Whereinto the Wise and Prudent will take Sanctuary, as foreseeing the Destruction that will come upon all Flesh. Therefore those, who as Noah are warned of this surprisal Day; take certain Instructions from the Lord’s Mouth, how to prepare this Celestial Ark, and to bring in thereunto such, who are willing to wait in Truth and Soberness in this Body of the Golden Ark, having put off the Body of the Sins of the Flesh, and as pure naked abstracted Spirits are free from all entanglements of the Earthly Life

It talks about a city where the prudent and wise take refuge. I think the journey to the cities is the city of God, the first city. He is taking us on a history lesson through t he scripts and in the physical journey which is related to world events.

Just a spot on piece in complete reflection to the one sided and alone conversation (its probably better that way so the discoveries can continue without distraction) and yet all pieces found in the above is relevant to the journey concerning the first places.

Its just spot on


Post  Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:57 pm

And here is a big one



The Interpretation of this Vision.

THEN came the opening Word unto me, to reveal this Vision, and giving me to understand the Signification of this presentation, denominated it to be the glorious Ark, which the Heavens hath contained, in which the everlasting Gospel-Testimony hath been sealed up. Which should as surely descend, as I did see it in Vision. For it was the Glory, that should gather in all of the new Creation, with whom the new Covenant should be established, wherein each one shall come to know God in, and from this living Testimony, that will open in the Body of the Divine Presence, where God will be known. While this into the Heavens hath been taken, the Glory and Power of the Deity hath departed from us. Although the Spirit hath been for our Comforter, and Teacher: and as the Dove brought out from the Ark an Olive Branch of Peace, so the Spirit hath often brought forth good tidings, of our Warfares accomplishing, and the Ark of his Presence returning, which hath kept us up in good Hope, that at its next Appearance, not only a Spirit, but a Body all communicative will be given. It is such a Body into which no Sin can thrust its self: this only can declare the full and perfect Redemption.

For this observe that a Spirit without a Body cannot act but in such a Body, as what is after its own kind, I mean flowingly without stop, and all powerfully without resistance. Therefore the Spirit of our Lord Jesus hath yet a difficult and hard work to effect, because he hath to do with a heavy gross, sluggish Body, into which the evil One can yet send in deadly fumes, and dark rays, making War and Strife, having all aid from this Terrestrial World to bring in, what would wound and depress the Spirit of the Mind; that all single to God would be, if it had but an agreeable Body, answerable to what its rising Light is, by vertue of its right Eye-Salve, that hath been applied by the Holy teaching Unction. By which it is convinced of a necessity, for having arrived to this degree of Wisdom and Understanding, as now to know, that not withstanding this whole visible corporeal Body, wherein the Sin hath stirred, yet the Spirit is naked: for nothing of this is of its own cloathing. Therefore it is, that Christ warns to get on the white Raiment, lest he would come and find them naked, and unready to enter with him to the Wedding-Supper. Now of this very rarely any hath understood or been perswaded to look into, and to search out the Mystery of it. Therefore we need not marvel, that the living Body of the Ark hath to none yet descended, for the powerful Might of the Spiritual Presence to act forth it self in, and by. And truly it is but yet young days since it hath been given unto us for to Believe and Hope, that the same Spirit, which raised our Lord Jesus his dead Body, shall also give a quickening Life to ours: whereby all those impediments of Dulness, Deadness, and Ponderosity by reason of Trespasses and Sins shall be done away. But you will say, by what means can it be possibly so perfect as to have no more Conscience of Sin? Why for this, take to that, and joyn with that Spirit, that is not only come to convince of Sin, but is come also (with the help and consent of our own Spirits) to destroy and utterly take away, by offering up the Body of the Sins of the Flesh, once for all and ever, that so, we might not still continue offering, in such a divided weak way, ministering still the same Lame and imperfect Sacrifices, that can never take away Sin, but still there is matter of remembrance and complaints made. For indeed it is not possible, that Iniquity should be Purged till this offering by the atoning Blood be made in us through the eternal Spirit. Which doth prepare Room for the most Holy Tabernacle cloathing to be put upon us, in which the daily Sacrifices for Transgression shall cease, and the perfect Ministry into the Temple-Body of the Holy Ghost brought in. Then new offerings of another kind without spot or blemish, we shall bring to our God. And as separated Ones, and as anointed Priests, we shall bear the Ark of the Presence of the most Holy, and thereby be secured from all Evils. For it is the very Body of God, wherein he will appear in Omnipotency as of old, whom the typical Ark did present in Moses and Joshua’s days. How did that present the mighty Wonder working-God of the whole Earth and Heavens? what was able to stand before it? When it did move and rise, was it not a terrour to the Lord’s Enemies, but a shelter and a defence of Glory to his chosen Heritage? If the typical Body of the most Holy being, was such a blessing in the Earth in its day, what will the real Body it self come for to be in a sacred Transparency, brought forth into a Manifestation? It need not to be doubted, but Mighty and Marvelous things will be wrought in this very Earth, by such whose lot it shall be to take in this real Heavenly Ark. David might well rejoice, when the Figure of this Ark was brought into the City of David, for God still made himself known in a signal way of Blessing. So it is to be understood, that God will have constituted such a Representative for himself on the Earth, for a most Holy Spiritual Body, whereat enquiry may be made, for the living Testimony is God himself there. This is the Glory Isaiah Prophesied of, even in that very time, when thick and gross Darkness was as a covering spread upon the people: but upon some chosen out, the Lord, in the Ark of his Strength, and Brightness of his Rising will be seen, for the bringing in his Sons and Daughters from afar, that so under the Covert and Wings of the everlasting Ark, they may be nursed and brought up, for to inhabit with the high and holy One, in the City that is all Salvation. Well may it be worth spending our Time, and separating our Minds, and dividing our whole Hearts from what is no better, than a poor Ark of Reeds and Bullrushes, in which hath been our present Harbour, that is so slender a shelter, that every weight crusheth it, and the Earthly Northern Winds blowing do suddenly blast upon it. Therefore let us, according as I did see a few in the Vision, be found in a Holy serious Posture, waiting for this our Body-Ark of invincible Might and Strength. Who knows but it may open and become the Blessing of our Day, while we are in a fixed Spirit looking out for it, owning and professing our selves to be as a Spirit without a Body, naked and powerless; And are not able to work the Mighty Deeds, that are proper to them, whose Spirits are in such high and near Alliance to God: and should shew it forth somewhat in a more eminent manner, as appearing in another fashion, and carrying a greater Presence of Power, Wisdom, and Glory. Plainly hereby declaring, we are of those, who do expect the Adoption, to wit, the Ark of this divine powerful Body, in which we may perfect Holiness and Redemption, according to the Will of our Lord Jesus



Post  Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:45 am

The Interpretation of the Vision.


THE next Morning calling it over again, and observing the way, which the Spirit dictated, as the Fish into the Sea did sink to bring up the Treasury of Light and Knowledge which was hereby found, being explained unto me by an internal Voice, which told me, that I had seen the gulf of Eternal Light, from whence the matter was generated. This Spirit of Power and Life, that shall enter into Nature all of God to renew evidently, where this shall have its opening, it will work consumingly, and yet therefrom shall come a Body of encrease, that shall be Mighty upon the Earth. For it is the sparkling Fire-Seed from the Deity, that will for it self create a meet Tabernacle for the Holy Trinity’s Manifestation. Then was it declared that this Sacred Fire had now begun its enkindling in our Earth, therefore have regard unto it, that nothing of this World quench it, but keep it pure and entire, and then the Deity will sprinkle that with Fuel: For its great encrease shall be brought forth substantially, into working Powers, operatively to make good and fulfill all of Prophesie; which only the sure Testimony can give, that God is again returned into Humanity, therein to fulfill the grand Mystery of a compleat Redemption. Which no other way finished can be, but through this Fire-Baptism, which each one may and must feel in themselves, as a rising pleasant Flame, which will do no other hurt, but to consume that, which hath been introduced from the strange Spirits. Therefore let us seek and pray earnestly for this Celestial spring to rise, for to recover us into the original Purity, to which we have lain so long, as slain.

Spot on



Rev. 5.9 And they sang a new Song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the Book, and to open the Seals thereof.

1Cor.1.10 For God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit, for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

More from Jane Lead, if my hunch is right there should some clues he\in the following.




Particularly as an E S S A Y

Towards The Unsealing, Opening and Discovering

THE Seven Seals, the Seven Thunders, and the New Jerusalem State

An E P I S T L E

To the living Stones gathered, and to be gathered to Christ, the Foundation Stone, (where-ever hid, scattered and dispersed) who are elected in God for the New-Jerusalem-Glory and Mount-Zion-Church; all Love, Grace, Peace, and Joy be multiplied from him who was, is, and is to come.

THE Establishment of the restored Sion-Church cannot be by Man or after Manly Wisdom, but by the holy Spirit which Christ our Prince and Saviour hath sent in his own Name, to build upon the Foundation of the Father and the Son; a Rock indeed, which remaineth steady and unshaken from Time to Eternity. And indeed, who else is found sufficient for the gathering and building of these holy Temple-Stones, that are to be fitly compacted together, to make up this glorious Church, that may be presented all fair, without Spot, as becomes the Spouse and Bride of the Lamb, which you will find the whole subject of the following Revelations tend to, even to the bringing out of all that are found in Lifeless Forms, into the very substantial Life and Ministration of the holy Spirit, where the Increase and growing up is known, into that Body, in which God will move and work all; for the which end all Prophecies that have been from the foundation of the World, may have their fulfilling in this last Age;

The Rock in the physical could be the anomalies of Dalamatia which was the first place of the Sons of God that you can still see, its still there after 500,000 years. I was completely intuiged by this verse in revelation.

Rev. 5.9 And they sang a new Song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the Book, and to open the Seals thereof.

The new book where people sung a new song and to open and crack the mystery of our heritages.


Post  Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:13 am


Therefore while ye in the state of Minority are, and have need to be under Pastors and Teachers, till you are come up to the highest Form, ready prepared and qualified for the great Master Teacher to undertake you, even the holy Spirit, who will perfect whatever was lacking in other Teachings, and through other Mediums, for which direct your Eye, waiting in a peaceable Concord and silent Harmony, in your own Jerusalem within, whereupon written is to be,

Holiness to the Lord in every Property; and then you will come to know the fresh Pasture-springs, which are only under the breaking-up-Seal of the holy Unction, where no defiled foot hath ever come to raise the Dust to discolour this golden Stream. This is the ministration which you will find the following Openings to point out and lead to; and though as yet it be an unbeaten Path, which the Lord hath by his Instrument now declared, and made known in way of Vision and Prophecy;

yet it is the true Day-star that will give its own light and witness: Therefore let the Wonderers, Despisers and Contemners take heed of making a Mock of that which the Alpha and Omega will own and stand by, as his express Mind, who prohibited the publisher hereof from altering the way and manner of the revealing of these great and deep things. Therefore you have them unpolished, in their own naked Simplicity as they were every day revealed & given forth, not in the dress of human Wisdom; no, they are of another descent, and the spiritual Ones in God will feel, know and taste from what Treasure-House they proceed:


Post  Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:26 am

In the following seems to be 7 stage process of the revealing from Jane Lead.


THE First was a circuling Cloud of Light, from whence uncessant Revelation would spring, and open what was never known before, concerning the invisible Scenes of Glory, to which the mortal Man hath been altogether a stranger, not having understood his original Royalty. But where Christ, the central Light, is entered into the Soul’s Essence, there everlasting Light doth break, which shews invisible things in their first pure Ground (the original places), where the eternal Fire-Soul moves strong to come out of an impotent weak Life, that hath been shut up in this vile Body of Sin; the Light of Revelation making it restless any longer to abide therein, and so it is made to pursue another beginning from a new-rising-Spring, flowing from the God-head, that affords strength for a Co-deified operation, which may give a living Testimony, that a new Spring is appearing out of an old Tree, whose Sap is renewed to bring forth the second Property of the holy Ghost, as another Fruit bearing Branch.

(Really says it all concering Dalamatia City and all the other cities concerning original royalty, going back to the pass where man is a complete stranger. The "which shews invisible things in their first pure Ground" the spirit of lord reveales the ancient places in the physical connected to a new books harmonised with the other books, a unification, salve and balm in the personal experience. This whole journey is the new spring appearring out of the old spring, going way back in the past of our heritages.)

Which Branch is put forth from the all-encompassing-Element, wherein the Soul is baptized, as in a Cloud of Fire; whoever they be that come to know this, need no greater Witness, as to their own particular, for they know their dwelling is in the very center Heart of God; they are fed and cherished with the Blood of Life, and oily Lamp that makes all the Body within to be as a burning Cherubim, that at times and season can mount & fly into the very Heavens: Though this be yet a mystical and dark Speech, and little experienced, yet know, the time of Elijah is nigh, and a Whirl-wind is descending from the Alpha and Omega, to take up the slain Witnesses, who have been in the World so undervalued. The Ascension-Gate by this bright Key is unlocked, to go in after him, who was translated from among Men, so as not to be yet hid in the Mystery: And thus shall it be again, though in another Form and Model; for these Elijah Prophets, though they shall be redeemed from every thing which is of the degenerate Nature, yet in this shall differ from Elijah, for whereas he was taken up, and seen no more among Men, these in their viable Persons shall remain on the Earth, and every where carry along with them their encompassing Chariots of Fire, which shall be discoverable to none but the Ministering Elijah’s, that will not cease to follow fully, where the Life Witness doth remain after this sort and kind.

The Third out-flowing Property of the holy Ghost, which ushers in Christ’s Reign, is this, that a simplified naked Soul, coming forth from the baptizing Cloud, puts on a Cloathing of impregnable defense and power, viz. A meer Magical Body, such as the Lord Christ had after his Resurrection, consisting of the one pure Element, which can swallow up the visible gross substance of Flesh, that it may no longer be an Impediment to the Soul's running its Race: Indeed such a Body is very suitable for the great things that are to be wrought by the christed Kings on Earth; for if provision of such a Body were not made by Christ, it would be in vain for him to go about to settle his Kingdom, where the Beast and Dragon have had their Dominion so long, and who will not now be dethroned upon a slight account: They will hold their Propriety in the outward Husk of the Body, when they can find no place for themselves in the Soul: Therefore the Lord hath revealed, That he will turn the very Body into its Paradisiacal Property again, that the dark Prince and his Agents may not be able to overthrow the Lord’s personal reign in his Saints; who would desire no fairer mark to shoot their Arrows at, than a frail mortal Body of Flesh. Wherefore the Lord hath said, That he will raise a firm Tabernacle, which no earthly Weapon shall be able to pierce, which will be a fit Garment to last out the thousand Years: Let the Just and Holy believe this, and see all this finished first, in the Kingdom that is within the Soul’s Essence, and then such may conclude that they shall assume a visible Power and Right to reign with Christ, over all Kingdoms of this World in Magical Might.

The Fourth out going Power of the holy Ghost, sets the Soul free in the eternal liberty, from all Conflicts which the Dragon, or the starry Region hath introduced, for the Soul now is influenced by those superior Planets, to which these outward Planets are subject. The Soul & Christ are in a mutual agreement, to break away from the Infectious Rays of Time and Mortality; being encompassed with that Sun that will set no more, nor with-draw; for it is the glory of seven Dayes, that runs its Circle without the least diminishing of its Light, and fixeth the Soul in its pure splendorous Body; when the Soul shall find it self in another form of Life, and seated as a high Principality before Jehovah’s Throne, attending there to know the counsel and decrees of the Sovereign Majesty, under whom is managed all inferior Government, which shall be committed to those who reign with Christ the Lord: Oh! this will be a wonderful time indeed ! For while the Lord is opening these things to me, I am as one sunk into the Abyssal Ground, where I am as nothing, till he put forth a piercing Ray from his flaming Eye, to fetch my Spirit up again; who thus spake unto me, Stand thou up, and hear and declare the new Model of my Reign, and let it be published; for it is time to awaken those who are ordained for the first-Resurrection, that they may no longer sleep in the day-break of my appearance: And do thou solemnly set thy Heart to the great Immunities that are revealed, not only for speculation, but for fulfilling, where great Earnestness shall be found. Thus the holy One set home his Word, and causeth it to pass through a Vessel that is nothing to be accounted of, whereat my self stands amazed, what should move the Lord thus to appear, and hold such a free Converse, and leave such weighty things in trust with me? Oh! What can be said, but that it is the Good-will and Pleasure of my Christ and King, who will change Tin and Dross into Gold, as it pleaseth him?

The Fifth Property of the Holy Ghost is that, whereby the Soul gets free from the striving Elements, and comes to Rest and Peace, all Wars and Combats ceasing. The Soul having got up these four ascending Steps towards the Throne, can now look down like a Tower of strength, terrible to all the lower Inhabitants round about: It is a Palace compacted within it self, knowing nothing but a serene Peace and Concord; neither Dragon nor Beast do so much as attempt to come here, for Love and Peace is their Hell and Torment. Christ’s personal Reign in his Saints consists of Peace, Power, Love & Joy; the holy Ghost moveth in the mild and meek Property from the Water of Life, that captivates the Enmity and Strife, and shuts up the dark Center with all its Spirits: This carries a two-fold meaning, for first it is to be understood of that Love and Peace which possesseth the whole inward Hemisphere of the Soul; and in the next place of the same Love flowing forth and diffusing it self through all the Subjects of that peaceful Kingdom, which Christ will establish in the high Angelical Harmony of Love.

The Sixth out-flowing Property, is the Omnipotence of God exerted in the renewed part, in an absolute and Almighty Dominion, that admits of no control. Here is no need of going out to borrow Gifts or Powers, which are now fixed in the Soul to manifest the Wonders of the Magia, which hath been shut up in Wisdom’s Principle, whose Virgins Crown of Power is sent down as a signal Testimony of the Kingly Reign that must prevail over all the Earth. The bright flaming Standard of Christ’s Personality will be of that Magnificence, as to draw home the dispersed and scattered Flock, which hath suffered Violence in this Babylonish Kingdom: A Jubilee will be proclaimed by them, to whom this Dominion shall first come. They, the Head-Kings and Leaders are appointed to shine forth as Stars, that shall bear such sway in God’s Omnipotency, as shall make all the Elect to haste and fly to this Kingdom, as Doves to the Windows, where all occasions of complaint about the Necessities of Life shall be cut off, because Wisdom’s Store-house shall from the Inherent Omnipotency, abundantly supply whatsoever is needful of this kind. The Paradisiacal lost Power shall be restored in a higher degree than ever, to the end that Self-Love and Propriety may be taken away, which cannot enter into Christ’s Kingdom; for the Lord hath averred, That none who are thus spirited shall ever his Kingdom inherit. The vast and inexhaustible Treasure of divine riches cannot be enjoyed in Propriety, but only in Loves Communion.

The Seventh and Last Property of the holy Ghost, that gives witness to Christ’s Reign, doth consist in a Life of Praise & Exaltation, which goeth forth in the Angelical Tongues, Powers, and Sounds of so many perfumed Offerings, paying an everlasting Love-Tribute of Joy to the Ancient of Dayes, by and
in whom they are come to reign over all Kingdoms in this World, in Christ’s personal Power: The New Hallelujahs from the Fire-breath of the Holy Ghost shall be the Holy Sport and Celestial Play of the Children of this Kingdom: All their Works shall speak forth the Praises of the Most High; for Wisdom’s Spirit will act so high, and in such a mysterious manner, as hitherto hath not been known; all which miraculous Powers have been reserved to make up the Glory of Christ’s second coming in his Representatives here on Earth: For if the Lord should not in this manner demonstrate his Godhead-Power in his Saints, they would be set very light by, and it would be a vain thing to assume the Title and Name of Kings without anointing Power suitable to it. No Dominion, whether inward or outward, can be maintained without Loves Omnipotency. And truly, my Lord hath assured me, that he hath made large and full Provision for this Day, who upon some private Objections of my own, said to me, Be thou nothing doubtful concerning all the great Things of my Kingdom, which have been opened to thee from the Center of Light; they have been revealed for a ground of Faith The Head of the Dyal is moving towards the fixed Hour, which will manifest all these working Powers of the holy Ghost: :Wherefore do not streighten thy self, nor any to whom this Word shall come, but run out in a spacious large Belief, answerable to Loves-Power, and the ability of the object, to whom the Eye of Faith is directed: For wonderful things are upon the Wheel, by which you may know it is high time to put forth your Hands to raise and awaken that which hath been so long asleep. This was the concluding Word of Counsel from the Lord

Very very interesting


Post  Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:39 am

A Fountain of Gardens: Volume I"






G a r d e n s,

WATERED by the Rivers of
Divine Pleasure

And Springing up in all the Variety of Spiritual Plants; Blown up by the Pure breath into


Sending forth their Sweet Savours,

A Bundle of Revelations Untied,

And to be Dispersed to such as are Impartial Seekers, and Unwearied Searchers into the Deep Things of GOD: Which are only Knowable to that Holy Spirit, that diggeth into the Rich Mines and Treasury of WISDOM: Of which the Author hereof was under a Powerful Driving for the Space of about Thirty Years; keeping a Private Recollection to her self, as they did from Time to Time open, and come down as a Burning Shower; not knowing whether they should have been made Publick in her Age, but thinking rather they might be kept as a Garden Enclosed, and as a Fountain Sealed.




I shall now wind up all with a Caution to two Ranks: the First shall be to the Unlearned and Ignorant in this Method and Way of the Spirit’s Manifestation. Which is, that they do forbear Rash and Censorious Judgment upon those Things that are at present above their Reach. For as they desire not to be prevented and bereaved of the Great Benefit of Divine Inspiration, and the Assistances of the Holy Ghost, my Advertisement to such is, that they become Simple and Child-like, and adventure upon the Conduct and Manifestations of the Holy Spirit, [color=blue]then will they find another manner of fruitful Life will in them spring[/color], and no reason shall they have to repent for Acquiescing to the Divine Will herein. The Second Caution shall be to that sort, which are already Initiated into this our Mystick and Supersensual Wisdom, that may have with me run deep into the Ocean of what is Mysterious and Wonderful for Knowledge. First I must caution you, with my self, to keep very Low, entering into a Self-Annihilation, so as a Nothing to be, with reference to the Creaturely Being, that the All-Deifick Unction may arise as an overflowing Tide: and never to think we have obtained by all that we have yet reached to, what yet remains of those Immense Treasures, which are yet further to be Revealed. For there is still a growing Tree of Life, that reneweth all Variety of Wisdom; as you will in part find by this Present, as well as by some Foregoing Books by me Published.

and more clues


Thus having given you a true narrative of the Several Removes and Risings, from one Degree to another, from Depths to Heights, and from Heights again to Depths; out of which hath been brought forth very Marvellous and Wonderful Secrets: which it was the pleasure of the Fountain of Spirits to distribute and communicate; being such Mysterious Things as haply may be rarely found elsewhere; which hath often me astonished, that such Unusual and Strange a Method the Spirit should take with me, opening such things. But it hath been given me to know, upon a Diligent Inquiry, that there is an Age coming on, the like to which hath not yet been, to whom these Prophesies and Revelations do belong. So that though the Day of my Life is far spent, so that I may not see the full Harvest, of what is by the Spirit sown here, to be reaped; yet assured I am that all is reserved for a Glorious Time, wherein shall arise a New Generation, that clothed upon will be with such a Mantle, as is interwoven with Light, Wisdom, Knowledge and Flaming Power. Among which there may be some that I may bear the Memorial of a Mother to as well Natural as Supernatural; that may possibly succeed in the same Spirit, which I shall pray may be as Wisdom’s Key, to go on to open in them the Golden Remains, which are yet to be brought forth, for the promulgation of the Priestly and Prophetical Kingdom, upon the Earth. So now I shall conclude, requesting you as you shall draw in any Light, or feel any Refreshment herefrom, that you would join with me in Acclamations and Praises to the Ancient of Days, who hath put into the Hands of a Good-willer to these Divine Mysteries, to bring forth into the Publick, what might otherwise have been left in Oblivion and Secresie. And it is my peculiar Request, which I this place leave, that the Nations may bless, and pray for such an Instrument that hath given a Proof of so Universal a Love to All. So that the Fulness of all Blessings and Showers from the Heavenly Powers, may descend upon the Impartial and Single-hearted Readers and Good-willers hereof, shall be the constant Invocation and Prayer of her, who while living in the Body, shall never cease to serve all her Fellow-Members, in the Gift of God, Universally.

J. Lead. 1696.


and another about the divine stone which could mean the 7 commands, the wonder stone


Divine Openings and Revelations since the Year MDCLXX.

The First Vision that appeared to me was in the Month of April, 1670.
Which was on this wise;

BEING my lot at that time to visit a Friend in a solitary Country-place, where I had great advantage of Retirement, often frequenting lonely Walks in a Grove or Wood; contemplating the happy State of the Angelical World; and how desirous I was to have my Conversation there, my thoughts were much exercised upon Solomon’s Choice, which was to find out the Noble Stone of Divine Wisdom; [Margin Note: See the Preface to the Laws of Paradise] for by acquainting my self with her, all desirable good in Spiritual things would meet upon me. The Report and Fame that Solomon gave of Wisdom, did much excite me to seek her Favour and Friendship; demurring in my self from whence she was descended, still questioning whether she was a distinct Being from the Deity or no? Which while in this debate within my Mind, there came upon me an overshadowing bright Cloud, and in the midst of it the Figure of a Woman, most richly adorned with transparent Gold, her hair hanging down and her Face as the terrible Crystal for brightness, but her Countenance was sweet and mild. At which sight I was somewhat amazed, but immediately this Voice came, saying, Behold I am God’s Eternal Virgin-Wisdom, whom thou hast been enquiring after; I am to unseal the Treasures of God’s deep Wisdom unto thee, and will be as Rebecca was unto Jacob, a true Natural Mother; for out of my Womb thou shalt be brought forth after the manner of a Spirit, Conceived and Born again: this thou shalt know by a New Motion of Life, stirring and giving a restlessness, till Wisdom be born within the inward parts of thy Soul. Now consider of my Saying till I return to thee again.

exactly the journey in all aspect to me its a total confirmation of everything about the this journey of the mysteries related to the first places!

and here is a synchronicity in this discovery check out the date 20th October and look at the time stamp of these posts 20th October... ahahah gotta a have laugh!


I had observed her Charge, and her Secrets should be with me, and that I should know such things from a deep Ground, as had not been broken up of late Ages:


Then will it be seen what the Conjoyning of the Eternal Constellations bringeth forth upon the hidden Man through their Fiery Drivings which now thrust forward for Consummation, that I might see the issue of what I have been made to hope and believe, and pray for: Though Prophecies and Revelations do for a time most delightfully entertain the Internal Senses, yet short they are of the Body which consisteth of the Heavenly Things themselves: as it is well said, Prophecies, Tongues, and Faith, and Hope shall have their Cessation, but the Kingdom of the Love, all Concord, the bright Bodified Spirit that hath received Dominion as a super-addition, is beyond the Priestly and Prophetical Office.

But while I was reaching after, and inquiring when I might expect the coming down of the
Seven-Throne-Powers which are the Pillars of this Kingdom, by whom it will be established for ever in the Perfection of Righteousness, the Word said to me,

Rest a while, these two are the foregoing Ministrations that will make much for the third, the Holy Order of a Priest to give attendance in the Tabernacle, is no light thing to be near to the Majesty of Purity, which requires a perfect Consecration.
For the Holy Being will have none about him to minister to him, but anointed Ones, from whom may be smelt the Spicy Perfume, that so nothing of the dead unsavory part may be felt; this will qualifie for the Ordination of the Power whereby thou wilt find ability to fetch in out of the secret Tower, where is kept for every full grown one, this presented great Jewel of Power: :which I dare not to any commit, till they perfectly become wise, of a sound and unchangeable mind to keep secret what the will-pleasure of the Deity is to have from the unworthy to be concealed; no unfaithful Delilah ever more shall herewith be intrusted, which of a double mind be, which goeth after any Lover besides me; therefore make proof of Truth, Love and Loyalty in a fixed Virginity, before this discovery be made forth in Verity: but this know, the true Nazarite is with Him who will not be deceived in his choice, as the figurative Sampson was.

The Secret Tower...mmmm I wonder if that is direct reference to the foundations of the Tower of Babel in Dilmun?? or Babeludd where Jesus descends to defeat Satan?

another fragment, it just keeps on going


to draw out his Heart more to thee, till he shall make known his great Secrets unto thee. I well know this is the only precious thing, no one can ever privy here unto be made, till Wisdom be the Bride-Garment upon their Eternal Man, then ravished with thy Beauty, and with a pleasant Aspect will Emmanuel look towards thee, and give thee to read within the seven sealed Book: There is the interpretation of all in the History, as from whence I give thee to understand
the Mystery of the Nazarite’s seven Locks, they answer to the seven Seals of this Book of Life, which only is to be opened by the Virgin, completed in the seven number of Spirits, which are the seven All-seeing Eyes that only can read in this Book, which is the true Ground-work of all those wrestling working Properties, which moved are by me, as thou dost in thy self feel, a new Frame and Model for great and precious substance to be taken into: therefore take heed now, and for no common use let thy inward part any more be; for these Throne-Powers which have visited thee, will admit no mixture of company: all of one sort in pure Harmony will meet in this Love-paved Sanctuary, where thy all desirable fellowship will there in the free Liberty dwell, and where opportunity thou wilt have in Love’s Sanctuary, to dive and search, till thou findest out what lieth hid within the Breast of thy worthy Nazarite, who now hath received his full Dowry: the Father hath invested him with all Power, to a full and perfect state of Glory he is now instated; then doubt not but he hath wherewith abundantly to gratifie thee: a higher and greater Match I could not contrive for my self in thee; consider hereof well, and carry it according to my Counsel, then shalt thou his Heart still draw down, the Tabernacle of witness in thy Heaven, the Rainbow in the Cloud, which thou hast seen, as the Mark or Seal of the Covenant betwixt God and thee, according as it is written in the Prophets, He shall be given for a Covenant:



I have provided this other Book, to be unloosened: The Seven Seals no longer shall before it stand, because I in favour am with the Lamb, who from his Virgin-Spouse will nothing hide: Therefore in my Light you may in this Book see where you may come to your lost dignity. It may well be Wisdom’s Book of Revelation entitled; for without me you here could nothing understand, though it stood all open to you, the Interpreter I my self must be, to tell you Letter by Letter, for you know not yet what number it is that makes up your New Name, which till you do see, what challenge can be made to the rest of the whole inrolled Mystery, but as in a Metaphorical Look through my Glass, in the first Leaf unfolded thou wilt see the engraving of that Name with Letters of Gold.

Incredible I wonder if the number is Sevens the new name, part of the Seven throne which goes even further to the Ancient of Days.

Anyway pretty amazing find in the timeline of the journey to the ancient, first places.


Post  Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:39 pm

November the 3rd.

The Divine A N G L E R.



THERE was presented to me a Person, Angling upon the Brink of a River, to catch Fish; but his Labour was fruitless. So that he gave off, being hopeless. Then came another Person and said, Be not Discouraged, but follow me: Behold, and see, I have got an Angle that hath such a Bait, as all the Fish in the River will fall upon it. And accordingly I beheld multitudes in a cluster brought up by it. Then cryed out that first Person, Surely the Lord, who is the great Fish-taker, in verity is come here, and hath wrought this Miracle indeed. Whereupon the Person went into the Deep, and having vanished down into it, drew up the Fish: and cryed, If ye will here follow me, ye shall the Principal Fish take; but under Water ye must learn to Dive, and again know how to Rise. Consider, and find out this Parable: for here is Meat for the Strong.


Amazing, I can relate to this in the fullest sense, absolutely 100% I know all about that. being at a low state but with the flicker of faith that drawing one on. Particularly in this journey. wow! I can see many parallels to my own life involved in commercial fishing from physical in the air and big led to catching Jags of fish even breaking records in the industry and all the while I was thinking about being a fisher of men inspired by reading the UB at that time and knowing Biblical knowledge from my bible college times. About Bible college, I just want to say that I really honor those times and very much came out of those times that have held me in good stead throughout the whole journey. It was a good thing thing that I open to explore that path which led to a very great path of planetary consequence in truth, beauty and goodness. Im glad I made that decision to seek the Lord first and to find out about God. It was a good time and the people where great! Bless them all and I hope they doing fine.

The whole process in the journey to the ancient places has gone on for years now writing everyday documenting and has taught me how to dive and rise to the surface in seeing the whole complete construct in this journey related to revelatory transition. Its just incredible how this confirms in the literal experience and in spiritual metaphor certain phases of my life. Inward and outward. There is so much in all this that is just a major reflection in may aspects of my personal experience even in the fishing industry and with spiritual thoughts of being Fishers of men. I just praise the Father in so many ways as to experience this. And remembering the actual moment of dedication to seek out the places out in the Western Pacific desiring to find the places under the full moon light night on a calm sea on a sea of peace under the sea of infinity.

This fragment is about the the expedition's to the lost cities and the discovery of them and the recovery of the Seven commands, the prize and the crown related to the new covenant.



But from this it was shewn me, that this River figureth out God himself, and the pure Angelical Spirits, that move in God as in the Glassy Sea: wherein contained are the vast Riches that none in Flesh can see, nor fathom; till they changed be into such a Body as in God their Watery Element to live, and there to swim, and dive for the unutterable precious Stones, to bring them up, according as need doth require. It is not the Angling upon the Outside of the River, but the Adventuring into it will obtain the desired Prize. And consider what Bait is to be the attracting Matter, to draw both Spirits and Substances of this unto us. Now then it may needfully be inquired into, what this Bait compounded of is, for drawing Angelical Spirits, that will also soon draw us after them?


Post  Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:05 pm

Finding good stuff all the time.



§ 4. Wisdom appearing to me, I inquired of her who these were; who told me, they were the Ancient and Late Worthies taught by Her, in her Divine Magical Stone, both in the Inward and in the Outward: and that the Time was now approaching, wherein she was to make New Artists in this Theosophical Wisdom, that should put a New Face upon what hath been Disfigured, and under a Cloud of Contempt, Ignorance, and Ignominy. For no other way than this could be found, but as this Deep Mine, wherein this Treasure hath so long lain hidden, should be broken up.

Then the Apostle John to whom this Mystery was well known, and who was the Person that had before spoken to me, spake thus to me, saying,
As there is a Natural Stone, so there is a Spiritual Stone, which is the Root and Ground of what is brought forth visibly by the Sons of Art. And as the Outward is Bodily, and consists in a manual Operation, and takes up a considerable Time for its perfecting; so is the inward gradually wrought out, and may require as many Years as the other doth Months, before it reach to its Consummation.

Then I enquired of the Angel, John, How I should go about Working it? He answered me, There must be a Cessation of all Working, as to the Powers of Nature: And I will describe to thee the Method that is to be taken, by the Similitude of the Outward. As there is a Furnace to be Built in that, so the Corporeal Man answers to that, wherein the Fire-seed of the pure Deity doth enkindle it self from the Essence of the Soul, finding a sanctified Vessel meetly prepared herefor. Now as to the Matter which is to be wrought upon, it is the Divine Salt, put into a pure clear Crystalline Glass, that is pure Spirit.

Furthermore, know thou that
this Salt is hidden in all Men, but it hath lost its savour, and is the Light Principle that contains all Principles, Man being an Epitome of all Worlds, though unknown to himself. Whence he may find in himself whatever he searcheth for: but this cannot be done, until the Salt-Stone, which hath lain as Dead, cometh to be Quickened by Christ the Fire-Stone, that calcines the Blackness into a jasper Brightness and Whiteness. This is the true Theosophical Medicine that doth gradually work from it self, of it self, and to it self, as a grain of Wheat is sown, and by the Concurrence of the Sun and outward Planets, forms itself into a Body. It is only to be watched that no Ravenous Birds do come to pick it up, before it arrive to its Maturity. For thus it is with the Golden Stone, which lies hid in the Ground of Nature, which is nourished by the warm fiery influences of the Divine Sun, and watered by the moist Sperm of the Spiritual Luna, which causeth it to vegetate, by the Coagulation of the Planetary Powers of the higher Order, drinking and swallowing up the weaker and lower, by which Dominion is obtained over all what is Astral and Elementary. Thus the Beloved John did open the Nature of this Royal Stone, as it opened in him in the isle of Patmos, when he was said to be in the Spirit. And he told me further, That where the Universal Love was born in any one, it was the true signature, that this Seraphick Stone would have its Formation.

The deep mine is Dalamatia City one of the treasure houses "but as this Deep Mine, wherein this Treasure hath so long lain hidden, should be broken up"

The Salt stone or the Royal Stone or the Seraphic stone is the Seven commands. The Seraphim's of this mission, the Sevenfold Scheme are directly related to the Sevenfold which is in direct linage to the Ancients of Days. You could say that the Sevenfold Seraphim's of the Sevenfold Scheme is the Office of the Ancients of Days.


How will the Bridegroom rejoyce to see his Bride as a spotless Lily, growing under the sturdy Tree of Life, who therefrom will pluck and present herewith the most lovely Fruits that this new revived Eden-Garden do afford; here are private Walks, sweet pleasant Groves, where the Lamb with his Virgin Bride may fully solace, and none do them espy; Spirit with Spirit can walk and talk very hiddenly, linked and wrapped up in the Mystery of the Trinity in Unity, from out of whose Arms none shall ever more pluck out

And how happy will Jesus be and for his servants as they they accomplished the great feat through faith alone in the Father in the journey to the ancient places and how joyous we will all be, sitting with Jesus himself under the tree of life of which we today are effected by the knowledge of it and its eternal knowledge in this journey to all ancient places which includes 1stEden, directly!

For one thing I am certain of that Jesus, the Son of Man is directly involved in guidance in this journey to ancient places, he himself is personally involved. Because he is our true friend and he really loves all mankind and wants mankind to be successful, very successful in the path to the Father which is individual and personal.

alright yea!



Still going on the same link, its like going through someone lifetime of work from the 17th century in quick speed trying to find the applicable fragments and matching characteristics to the reality in the journey.

I was curious about this piece in its reference to 1stEden, maybe it has metaphor this reality of 1stEden as we know it through the source material that led to the missions there.



Ah, my Mother, I do not say how can, but how and when must the Accomplishment of this be, for which I am now in such dying Agonies, that this New Glorified Life might only appear? While thus in secret Debate I was contesting, because my Hopes were delayed, as to the present Age, which gives right to an Estate of Glory at Hand: which is the Manifestation who are Jewels belonging to the Crown-Royal; O what Raptures of Love’s Divine did I feel, ardently desiring a Dissolution from my own Creaturely Being, and from all others who in corrupt Nature’s Genealogy do live, as one wearied and tired out of all, seeking only Fellowship and Bosom-Rest with my Mother in the free New Jerusalem, as it is known in its descent into the habitable Parts of a renewed Earth, inclosed for the precious noble Seed to put forth in their manifold Virtues, Powers, Colours and Operations. All which be kept in their vigorous fragrant sweetness, as a ready Entertainment for the High Throne-Powers to welcome themselves here in Mystical Paradise, in which Wisdom hath recreated and formed another Adam, being Male and Female, a Production of her own Virgin-Nature, as upon my Expostulation was opened to me, who bad me not despond, but be of good cheer, for she was come to renew the beautious and fresh Glory of the now declined withered Garden, formerly called Eden, but now so over-grown with prickling carking caring Bryars, unsavoury Plants, all concurring to make desolate and ravenous.

Again its the current reality and the resurrection of the knowledge of the past through the discoveries of the ancient places which one of them mentioned Eden. Its this precursor which is the activation of the coming of the throne powers, its an entry point of there presence and arrival. The discovery of 1stEden by Robert Sarmast was an important initial first stage that has led to other places as through a history lesson. This is reflected in the above.



Post  Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:50 am

I find it interesting that soon after British solders where taken hostage and who where released soon after. Blair quits his job in an attempt to make for peace and even to this level of a interfaith group to work out the differences between religions that lead to this extremity.

I think thats a reasonable contribution from the path of war and conflict.

It was interesting that I revealed the ancient places and links to both sides when in conflict over the hostages only to be released soon after. III never know if that was reason but it was intriguing that whole experience being there, doing what I did and seeing the changes in paths.


Sixty Propositions" 

EXTRACTED OUT OF A BOOK [written by Jane Lead in 1697] ENTITLED,
" A Message To The Philadelphian Society, whithersoever dispersed over the whole Earth", 
This was first published in  the April, 1697 edition of the "Theosophical Transactions",  by the Philadelphian Society .


Nibiru Approaching??



The Soul having got up these four ascending Steps towards the Throne, can now look down like a Tower of strength, terrible to all the lower Inhabitants round about: It is a Palace compacted within it self, knowing nothing but a serene Peace and Concord; neither Dragon nor Beast do so much as attempt to come here, for Love and Peace is their Hell and Torment

That's why many many people who channel in our times have never predicted the discovery of these places. Not one, they will talk about everything else but they will never talk about this. There information that guides them will never come to this place, they all avoid it because they don't know about it and through pride and prejudice they don't read the scriptures and everything else related to the Father. I believe the great mystery was to be accomplished through the scriptures, writings of previous servants, and seers who worked with Melchizedek and the Holy Spirit and through a new book written by heaven which is the prime base and through faith and trust, in the inner guidance as expressed. That's it, no miracles, just faith in the word and words of everything, not just one book but all of them related to religion. Some more than others but all relevant in one way or another.

However, through some individuals by the action of the Holy Spirit in the past 2 thousands years I believe there has been a few that have described in great detail the journey to the ancient places. That's all that's needed just a few to relay the message to the final construct, every piece makes part of the whole. God doesn't need to use thousands. The disciples I believe where used in this operation and there probably more are St Ephraim, Nostradamus and Jane Lead within this 2000 years and where used in this long term operation.

The commonality between these people is the commonality of the religion and the Holy Spirit, these people where servants of Jesus and I believe they knew there bible. Also I remember reading in Jane Lead somewhere that this will happen of a foreign coast.

I believe all the channel  these days in their final construct are flat out wrong! There all wrong, all of them. I believe their will be only one right reality that will happen and I wouldn't be surprised if its this one regardless what people think.

Gotta see what happens.



Post Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:08 am Confirmation

As you can see lately I have been researching Jane Lead to see if there are clues and reflections to this journey and the Seven Commands, the unutterable Wonder Stone. I must say it has been a wonderful journey as I see direct reflections of Jane Lead to now. I am certainly impressed at find this at this time.

Also recently, I was wrestling about the functions of the office especially regarding price and reward in terms of raising funds to launch an expedition to Dalamatia City. It occurred to me that as I reading Jane Lead there where references to the Office I noticed, So I thought I would do a word search on the word office with important highlights. I believe I received my answer.

Here is a compile of the instances of the word "Office" in fountains of the Gardens.

In this document I came across an unusual triangle diagram drawn by Jane Lead which blew me away especially after my recent finding that Dalamatia City was a triangle City with a circular temple in the middle. I found this triangle diagram contains Jane Leads interpretation that mirrors this office by myself and the very aspect of this journey. I find overall instructions relayed to this office of the Messiah in this word search of this document of Jane Lead.


For the Sensitive Life cannot consent that ye should be married away out of their known Linage and Country; Therefore they will lie in wait to entercept all Messages, and Love-Tokens from your Immanuel, to prevent the success of so great a Wedlock change. Therefore I the Spirit of your Lord, do warn you, that you turn away from all self, and creaturely Parly. The Serpent also will subtlely back with Arguments in forms of Flesh, that so ye might grow cold in your Love, and slack in your Faith: but spur forward, and faint not, for the everlasting Gate is set open by Soveraign Command. The Trumpet doth daily sound to enter into Love’s Holy Ground, where only the Friends of the Bridegroom shall attend you, at the Banqueting Feast of Bread and Wine. Now away, and draw from all the cursed things of Jericho, and you shall meet assuredly your Melchizedeck King, with a full Cup of Blessing. This receive as a faithful and true saying from the Yea and Amen.

Post Sharp drop seen in US deaths in Iraq Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:29 pm


I thought this was a good step forward, I feel out of this could the new Iraq arrive with a people willing to cooperate and work together to find a peaceful and livable solution.

Sharp drop seen in US deaths in Iraq


By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer 9 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - October is on course to record the second consecutive decline in U.S. military and Iraqi civilian deaths and Americans commanders say they know why: the U.S. troop increase and an Iraqi groundswell against al-Qaida and Shiite militia extremists.

Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch points to what the military calls "Concerned Citizens" — both Shiites and Sunnis who have joined the American fight. He says he's signed up 20,000 of them in the past four months.

"I've never been more optimistic than I am right now with the progress we've made in Iraq. The only people who are going to win this counterinsurgency project are the people of Iraq. We've said that all along. And now they're coming forward in masses," Lynch said in a recent interview at a U.S. base deep in hostile territory south of Baghdad. Outgoing artillery thundered as he spoke.

Lynch, who commands the 3rd Infantry Division and once served as the military spokesman in Baghdad, is a tireless cheerleader of the American effort in Iraq. But the death toll over the past two months appears to reinforce his optimism. The question, of course: Will it last?

As of Tuesday, the Pentagon reported 28 U.S. military deaths in October. That's an average of about 1.2 deaths a day. The toll on U.S troops hasn't been this low since March 2006, when 31 soldiers died — an average of one death a day.

In September, 65 U.S. soldiers died in Iraq.

Part of the trend can be seen in a volatile and violent band of lush agricultural land on Baghdad's southern border.

The commander of the battle zone — Lt. Col. Val Keaveny, 3rd Battalion, 509th Infantry (Airborne) — said his unit has lost only one soldier in the past four months despite intensified operations against both Shiite and Sunni extremists, including powerful al-Qaida in Iraq cells.

Keaveny attributes the startling decline to a decrease in attacks by militants who are being rounded up in big numbers on information provided by the citizen force — which has literally doubled the number of eyes and ears available to the military.

The efforts to recruit local partners began taking shape earlier this year in the western province of Anbar, which had become the virtual heartland for Sunni insurgents and al-Qaida bands. The early successes in Anbar — coming alongside a boost of 30,000 U.S. forces into the Baghdad area — led to similar alliances in other parts of Iraq.

"People are fed up with fear, intimidation and being brutalized. Once they hit that tipping point, they're fed up, they come to realized we truly do provide them better hope for the future. What we're seeing now is the beginning of a snowball," said Keaveny, whose forces operate out of Forward Operating Base Kalsu, about 35 miles south of Baghdad.

While U.S. death figures appear to be in sharp decline, the number of Iraqi civilians and security forces show a less dramatic drop. And any significant attack — by insurgents or civilians caught in the crossfire — could quickly wipe out the downward trend.

The current pace of civilian deaths would put October at less than 900. The figure last month was 1,023 and for August, 1,956, according to figures compiled by The Associated Press.

The AP tally is compiled from hospital, police and military officials, as well as accounts from reporters and photographers. Insurgent deaths are not included. Other counts differ and some have given higher civilian death tolls.

While the decline in deaths is notable, it is only one of many measures of potential progress in Iraq, said Anthony Cordesman, a former Pentagon analyst now with the private Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

Cordesman said a more balanced picture needs to include factors such as wounded civilians and soldiers and the number of people fleeing their homes. The U.N. refugee agency said Tuesday that between 1,000 and 2,000 Iraqis still leave their homes each day for safer havens in the country or in neighboring nations. "It's just been going up slowly," said U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees spokeswoman Astrid van Genderen Stort in Geneva.

"The numbers we're dealing with here are only major acts of violence, the number of times people are killed," said Cordesman. "This is certainly progress ... but it has to be put in perspective."

Lynch's mission also shows the slow pace of reclaiming areas from militants. His troops and their new local allies must work town by town, village by village.

Sunni Sheik Emad Ghurtani is among those helping.

"Honestly, I'm not going to hide this from you," Ghurtani told Lynch as the two stood talking at a newly established tribal check point near Haswa, a village just north of the Kalsu base.

"There is some al-Qaida here in this area. But, God willing, we will get rid of them. ... The citizens are coming out. They're not afraid any more," the tall and handsome tribal leader said. Three scruffy young men watched, AK-47s slung over their shoulders, in the sandbag bunker at the check point.

Lynch, hatless on the balmy autumn day, answered in staccato sentences.

"What we really need is information. You know where al-Qaida is. You know who they are. You have to tell us. We can use all our capabilities to take out the enemy. But you have to tell us where they are, because you know. You've got our total support."

The sheik, who made Lynch promise to return for lunch one day, responded with striking eloquence.

"Because of what the American forces have accomplished, instead of us moving step by step we're going to start running toward the enemy ... Instead of walking, we're going to start running now. We just need the weapons and ammunition," Ghurtani said.

The guard force at the checkpoint changed during the conversation. Three young men barely out of their teens, ancient Kalashnikovs in hand, strolled town the dirt road that led back into Ghurtani territory. Their U.S.-provided uniforms are a vest with a reflective orange band akin to what road crews wear in the United States.

Ghurtani complained they hadn't been paid the $100 a month the Americans had promised.

"If I get some of the money they need I can get them shoes, some vests and some ammunition. If they can find me cheap weapons, we can start getting these men ready. God willing in the next few days," the sheik said.

Most heartening, Lynch said, was the checkpoint just across the road and over an irrigation canal. It was run by Shiites.

Lynch said the checkpoints on opposite sides of the road highlighted a kind of reconciliation by necessity: not fighting each other but protecting themselves from a common enemy.

"They have to be convinced that we're not leaving. That's the issue. If they were to think we're leaving we'd have also sorts of trouble," Lynch said, clambering over a makeshift earthen bridge across the canal.

The local Shiite sheik wasn't at the checkpoint.

He was in a hospital recovering from injuries in a car crash. Two ragtag fellows in their 20s stood up from their sandbag bunker and told Lynch they needed money to buy weapons. "Al-Qaida has all kinds of weapons. We just have these old rifles," one of them said pointing to his dilapidated Kalashnikov.

"OK. We just continue to work together to get you the money so you can buy better weapons, better ammunition, uniforms. Improve your check point. We just have to work together," Lynch said, spinning on his heel and marching back to his nine-Humvee convoy.

On to Haswa, down a road known for Iranian-made roadside bombs, a Kiowa gunship clattered above as protection. Back at division headquarters, public affairs officers were hammering out more press statements about how Concerned Citizens were leading soldiers to militant weapons caches and turning in extremists fighters.

Perhaps in this new spirit a solution may arrive. Personally, I think this a far better alternative than religious armies. I think they are a failure to peace and a far to aggressive and intolerant of others because of wrong interpretation and a lack of willingness to look wider and deeper. Religion should be only concerned in things of the spiritual nature of the individual in obtaining the highest estates of truth, beauty and goodness.

I'm so glad that the concerned citizens are beginning to form unity and sue for peace. This is the real Iraq of cooperation and working together to build a civilization. I see hope in this development this maybe a little beacon, an array of light of good willer and doers. That's the only army Paradise is interested in, The army of good willers and doers to all mankind, thats all. There is where the real spiritual heroes will come from, that's the only thing that's going to work in Iraq. The brotherhood of Good willer's and doers.


Post  Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:43 pm Steve Fossett

To me I find it rather interesting considering a Cessna 175 would have a certain range and surely would be spotted from the air. Also there full radar coverage which would be recorded. I'm sure if he was over 500agl he would be spotted with the area control. If area control have coverage of the area in the general time period he disappeared a signature of direction could be found.

It could very well be that someone will be hiking in the mountains at some future time and find the the aircraft. Other than that Rapture would seem like a another likely option....taking the conspiracy line. Total conjecture! but one thing though when I saw the news come out I remember one of thoughts going through mind was some rapture. Totally out there thought.

I hope one day they find the answer to this mystery and in the most optimistic sense I hope he is ok.


Post  Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:37 am Jane Lead


The Ternary of Witnesses upon the Earth, answering to the Impression, from the three Branches of the True Olive-Tree, were now heard to give in severally their Testimony, agreeably with that which is given in the Heavenly Places, in order to the bringing about the greatest and highest of all Ministrations, which is that of the Holy Ghost; and to the compleating, and defending of the Kingly Birth, from the Virgin Woman, which the Dragon ever watcheth against, to destroy it. And hence was it given me to understand the several Offices and Business, belonging to each one of these, to make ready for the Birth-Day and to protect this High-born One from the raging Floods & the tempestuous Winds of the Adversary. The Spirit’s Work is to reprove, convince, exhort, counsel, caution and comfort, in order to the carrying on this great Affair. The work of the Water is another witness, as you find it in you, as a bubbling Pool cleansing every part within, that so not the least defect may be found in the Matrix, whereout the Birth must open. Then the Blood is a great Testimonial Witness and Evidence, as in a mystical manner conveyed, tasted, and drunk down by them, that do carry the matter of this Birth, for it doth produce a vigorous Life, that will be known and felt, to refresh both Mother and Babe. So keeping all these in their several acting Properties; they will be the clear evidence unto thee, that the Ghostly Birth is working out it self. Therefore with these three, let thy Will-Spirit agree hereunto, to throw out every mis-conceived thought. For now all things must be new again, by the Father, Word, and Spirit, through this new Birth wrought. That ye may come to a mighty Record among the New Jerusalem Stones, where all are waiting this rising day to see, because it will fix in thee, an unknown Liberty both in Spirit and Body.

In wrestling with the commerce aspect in raising funds for the expedition and production i was really concerned about how to do it and about the whole idea of creating a business in order to do this and devote all my time to he physical aspects of the office of the Messiah that I recently opened. Believe me no one is going to help me on this except the Father. Like invest dollars, unless I come up with the initial evidence no will do anything. Everyone is a wuss to what I propose. The only way is through commerce and traffic unfortunately this involves dollars and cents on the back of the faith journey on the run.

With wrestling with these things as I working the word search on the keyword "office" I was completely inspired by the dividing the functions of the office. Firstly there is the spiritual function of the Office which is headed by the function of the Holy Spirit whose job it is to "The Spirit’s Work is to reprove, convince, exhort, counsel, caution and comfort, in order to the carrying on this great Affair."

and then have you another business which is solely concerned with the work of the water which to me is all to do with the lost city "
The work of the Water is another witness, " This whole journey is the work of the water which involves all the cities. 1stEden the first and Dalamatia City the Second and who knows the 2 Dilmuns in North Eastern Persian Gulf could be third and fourth discovery! And the Adamson/Van civilization roots in North Eastern Iran in that Valley could be the 5th discovery and many more that completes the picture in final.

And note the work of the water is "another witness" a witness to the testament which includes precisely the journey to the ancient lost cites. There seems to be reassurance that the truth emanating out of this is truth "bubbling Pool cleansing every part within"

And this excerpt really made an impression on me.

Its seems obvious that this is a 3 prong level approach by the Father, in harmony and in unification. By the Father who is directing all events through all, the word as in the manifestation of the word as we discover these things in the books and in reality, like the cities and the Seven commands. And the Spirit, the experience of wonder and inner direction, the experiential experience of discovery and being led in faith and all the angels working in unison together with the Father fragment within, the feeling of love that you feel and friendship.



by the Father, Word, and Spirit, through this new Birth wrought. That ye may come to a mighty Record among the New Jerusalem Stones, where all are waiting this rising day to see, because it will fix in thee, an unknown Liberty both in Spirit and Body."

And the New Jerusalem stones which I feel encompasses the cities and the Seven commands and its all to do with the water. note that "all are waiting this rising day to see" Its like as we journey on the pieces in details fall in place and the ark begins to swell with people jumping on. It could be the scenario we see before us.



The Light that now is breaking open upon you, is to give a sight into that City and new Creation, to which ye do belong. For ye are under quite another kind of Government, having taken upon you that high Apostolical Profession, which enters you into and makes you partakers of that high calling. For here is a Spiritual Service and Employ allotted, for every Sion born Spirit, so soon as they are grown up to the understanding part. As the outward rational Spirit and Body, as soon as grown up and capable of Traffick and Commerce, are their own Crafts-Masters in, and over things Temporal; by which Corporalities do subsist:

Even so likewise see what Calling the great High-Priest and Apostle took upon him, as our Pattern, so soon as he was grown up in Wisdom and Ability, so as to take upon him the Office and Function, whereby he might set upon the Work and Business, for which he was sent into the World by God the Father. Who never was found sloathful or negligent in Spiritual Business; for he was always found in spiritual Action, working the Works of his God and Father in his Day

So function of the office of the Messiah is based on these following fundamentals

Wisdom and Ability
the Office and Function
the Work and Business

Spiritual Business
spiritual Action

The office of the messiah is the highest office in the land.

This would also be responsible for "Traffick and Commerce," as business people are greatly concerned with temporal things of today. Which is ok and has all to do with civilization but if the business man was more connected to the eternal aspects of truth, beauty and goodness he would have better results and be a better person for it.

So in relation to traffic and commerce that would seem to be a function of the Office of the Messiah in relation to the ancient places. Because it takes on the pattern of the Father, The Word and the Spirit and it has a Sevens pattern and link.

And here is the confirmation of my job offer as a personal assistant to the Messiah to anyone, found in this Jane Lead extract
"For here is a Spiritual Service and Employ allotted, for every Sion born Spirit, so soon as they are grown up to the understanding part."

To me this study of these office fragments confirms everything that I have proclaimed and declared regrading this journey and also the recently opened office of the Messiah on my website inspired by the Zadokite document and found in detail in Jane Lead, to a tee! in every way with good advise. Not only that, she confirms this will be a good record and living testamony. I opened the office because I wanted to that and in commemoration to the last teacher of righteousness who had to close the office down but who foresaw the office reopening as the office of the Messiah. I thought this time would be time in doing that and whilst inside the journey to the ancient places and its part of the Sevenfold journey.

Anyway seems to confirm the track that I'm on as I can read about it after I did it. Another demonstration to me, at least in the beforehand seen in the afterwards as read going back in the timelines of the posts. One thing is for certain is the functionality of the office. Now I have good direction in the office specifically.

There is so much more to wade through in this study of Jane Lead. There is no ending to here many parallels to this journey and testamony.


Post Tony Blair for the EU presidency! Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:34 am

First names floated for top new EU jobs



22.10.2007 - 08:02 CET | By Renata Goldirova
EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS – Although the ink on the new EU treaty deal is barely dry, several names are already being floated as possible candidates for the European Union's first-ever president – among them Tony Blair, former UK prime minister.

"He [Tony Blair] is a very remarkable man, the most pro-European of all Britons. It would be quite a smart move to consider him", French president Nicolas Sarkozy said on Friday (19 October), triggering speculations about who could be given a high-profile job after the new Lisbon Treaty enters into force, set for mid-2009.

A similar message came from UK prime minister Gordon Brown, who said Mr Blair would be "a great candidate for any significant international job". However, he added it was "premature" to debate the list of possible candidates before the treaty is ratified.

Although the job comes with no executive powers, the new president of the European Council - a body representing EU governments - is expected to be a top politician. The first president is also expected to set the job description for future presidents.

The post is a two and a half year term, but it can be held twice. The system replaces the current situation where the post rotates among member states every six months.

But despite his high-profile career, giving an EU post to Mr Blair would probably cause some strong controversy.

Critics continue to point to his support of the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 - something that caused a deep rift in the EU. Others question his commitment to the European project, given the fact that London does not participate in some key common policies.

A spokesperson for former UK leader told British media that Mr Blair - who is now the quartet's envoy to the Middle East - was "focusing on his current role".

Luxembourg's prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker, Danish prime minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen and Poland's former president Aleksander Kwasniewski have also been tipped for the top job.

Foreign affairs representative
Meanwhile, European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso - reportedly eyeing a second term from 2009 - has welcomed prospects of a permanent EU president, saying it will bring "more stability and continuity".

"It is better for the commission president to have relation with the president on permanent, well-known basis than to establish relations every six month", Mr Barroso said despite his recently expressed concern that the EU president post will shift power away from EU institutions towards member states.

Similarly, Mr Barroso praised the newly created post of EU foreign affairs representative, combining the two current jobs of EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana and EU external affairs commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner.

"A great part of our work in the commission is spent on articulation [...] to the council", Mr Barroso said on the position, which is expected to improve the European Union's profile on international scene and - perhaps - finally give the world a single phone number to call in Europe.

Unlike the EU president, the appointment of the foreign affairs chief to set to be controlled by the European Parliament as the politician in question will also be a vice-president of the European Commission.

Sweden's foreign minister Carl Bildt has been cited as a possible candidate for the post.

I fond this a very interesting development in the life of Tony Blair and I personally find it experience from the way I see things in the journey.

I wonder what is driving him in this pathway, what is influencing him? The real truth not conspiracy.


Post  Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:07 am

Its real bloody joke, the whole scenario is all upside down and all confused and in contradiction. What a mess the middle east is especially when certain countries are exporting terrorist activities. They just wont last at the end of the day, if its not for the benefit of civilization and the family in light of truth it wont last. All those characters who perpetuate death and destruction upon the families of mankind will just go. Especially for political purpose.



Post  Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:26 pm Jane Lead


yet it is the true Day-star that will give its own light and witness: Therefore let the Wonderers, Despisers and Contemners take heed of making a Mock of that which the Alpha and Omega will own and stand by, as his express Mind, who prohibited the publisher hereof from altering the way and manner of the revealing of these great and deep things. Therefore

you have them unpolished, in their own naked Simplicity as they were every day revealed & given forth, not in the dress of human Wisdom; no, they are of another descent, and the spiritual Ones in God will feel, know and taste from what Treasure-House they proceed:

The above from Jane Lead is the exact description of this journey and nature at which its revealed, everyday in a simple, unpolished on the run way.

It seems that the Alpha and Omega (Jesus) stands by it to and is involved why not! Fantastic!! Apparently it leads to the treasure house of the planet and the wisdom is of a very old origin and we are all headed for it.

Full steam ahead...dont now how... but full steam ahead, to the sea of peace!




that link sounds like garbage.

Big deal whats that waffle suppose to mean to my personal experience with the UB.

More conspiratorial blah blah blah!

Regarding course of Miracles and all that, I reckon this guy is pretty close to the truth.

This would be my reply to that link of nothing.



Icon 1 posted 10-27-2007 03:17 AM

Riven where is the submerged 5 hills of Africa. Have to got an image. A straight image

With the Urantia Book one only has to read and look at the anomalies that all link 4 other sites together in symbolism of the design, 4 other cities and I can show the images.

The only action going on the planet is in the Persian Gulf that is only place that Paradise and the Kingdom of Heaven is focused on. All other thought are superfluous, these places are the treasure houses, heritages and the crowns of the planet.

The triangle city, Dalamatia in design even has links to the triangular chevron seen near the face on Mars. Plato and Solon records are only a distant reflection of these places and personally I feel The Plato story is only part and a distant reflection of all the known places as reflected in the Urantia Book. In design I think its reflects the anomalies of Babel in Dilmun. It appears Babel or Dilmun was built on a isthmus running North to South. The circular foundations of Babel are a distance from the sea wall where the canals of the feed the city with commerce from the sea.

Obviously the city built up and protected over time from the sea through a Dyke and canal system like in the Netherlands. As the sea levels rose so did the walls until they breached which destroyed the city in one night.

The anomalies of Babel/Dilmun appear to match the Plato description.

The circular city was a distance from the sea fed by canals, it was a city of commerce and had a big reputation as known as the city of the immortals adopted from Dalamatia after its destruction. The city was built by the fallen Sons of the Gods adopting the Dalamatia legends while Van, the builder of 1stEden and the loyal sons evacuated to the lands of North Western India near Srinagar near Lake Dal. In that valley is where earlier man evolved from.

Here is the Babel gallery

I feel the Atlantis Story is a mixture of Dalamatia and Dilmun/Babel myths and is a distant reflection of the Andites in Egypt. The great Pyramid entails the whole story of the long ago race and we are all related to them.

Hey Riven, Urantia people are just normal people of the planet who are truth seekers mainly. I here more good reports from people about the UB than bad reports. To me the UB stands because it has led me to some fantastic discoveries that covers the whole timespan.

Particularly finding the triangle city of our origins and seeing it reflected throughout all the other places is just a phenomena!


Icon 1 posted 10-27-2007 02:34 PM

Riven the first link is an old frying pan and the lines are mean for fat run off, its an old George Foreman frying pan the first model.

Hey its an holy because it has 7 rings ahahahahah.

With the other links all I can say is that the planet had a lower sea level as we go further back and your images with induced flooding doesn't fit the reality as science understand.

Plus is there any reference in any book or artifacts that back your theory coming from Tanzania?

I was thinking with the frying pan, it came from the Greek isle so it must be a relic of the Ionian's, who where the previously Javan who came from the Adamson civilization who came from the Van capital in North Eastern Iran.

Sorry Riven I dont buy your out of Africa .... Adam and Eve and Avila which appears to be just another mountain range.


[ 10-27-2007, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: sevens ]

Hey Qoais

Did you read the link I gave you in reply?

Actually, I think all Atlantis theories are up the put and there is only one action going on and that is the Persian Gulf! Stemming from the Triangle City. Dalamatia City.

I don't know why Atlantis Rising placed the triangle and circle in Bimini because there is nothing there just anchor rocks of the Indians. That's all they will find there just Rocks. Also I'm doubting the source information that led Cayce regarding Atlantis.

I'm wondering whether Edgar was infiltrated by Caligastia because his Atlantis information has NOT worked out and has not come to pass! and has led to disappointment and confusion.

Whilst on the other hand the books of religion pertaining to Jesus Christ including the Urantia Book, the new book just keep on getting results even in the time I have been here. This only demonstrates the power of Paradise or "The Kingdom of Heaven" where its words STAND where you can read and see. All the prophets spoke of the cities as the treasure houses and we are the door of there treasure houses currently. Particularly the great Triangle City Dalamatia City!

There is one truth regarding our history anything else is error! and imagination. All those people channeling are all way off the mark and are not close to truth. All of them don't represent these places and never have I reckon they are all deluded by Caligastia every single one of them and even people who today use cards and fortune tellers they are all wrong! No one except the prophets of religion foresaw the discovery of these places but no one else, utterly. Not even today's so called super connected chanellers who go in stupid trances and speak rubbish to unsuspecting people are connected to the right source. They have all been misled!

Anyway these places submerged in the Persian Gulf in my mind have proven the case and will prove and demonstrate this further.

The Office of the Messiah!

Icon 1 posted 10-27-2007 09:29 PM

According to my calculation Senusret III was a distant relative of Abraham on the throne of Egypt at that time. Abraham and Sensurat 111 where involved in some military campaigns.

But Abraham thought he would follow the greater path and decided to go back home in better times.

Also you made mention, to make known, declare and some mention about the stone slab. Is the stone slab in reference to the pillars, is that the thought or could it mean something else?

Actually what's the source that your drawing from? Have you got a link. I might have look and see if I can find some clues there...maybe!


Icon 1 posted 10-27-2007 09:53 PM

The Kolbrin Bible rendition of the Exodus of Moses is more aligned with the Urantia version than the bible. There quite a few things that the UB and the Kolbrin Bible have in common regarding the Moses exodus. I would tend to believe in many parts the Kolbrin thoughts as that rendition came from the Egyptians themselves and wasn't so religiously expanded as in the Bible.

Is this Video the approach of Nibiru?



Post  Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:55 am Working out the layout of the City and the clues

Here is another clue I just found in the Urantia Book whilst debating why I think Dalamatia is the Triangle City in the Southern Persian Gulf, seen in the images.

Here is another clue to the design of the places in bold.



line 166: The Prince's staff lived together as fathers and mothers. True, they had no children of their own, but the fifty pattern homes of Dalamatia never sheltered less than five hundred adopted little ones assembled from the superior families of the Andonic and Sangik races; many of these children were orphans. They were favored with the discipline and training of these superparents; and then, after three years in the schools of the Prince (they entered from thirteen to fifteen), they were eligible for marriage and ready to receive their commissions as emissaries of the Prince to the needy tribes of their respective races.

In my mind these fifty pattern homes are large enough to house and accommodate 500 individuals at one time.

As I look at the image above I can clearly see the patterned shapes that would accommodate no less than five hundred individuals. I can certainly see the pattern homes within the subdivision. There seems to be smaller patterns in larger grid and dominated by the Vees(subdivision walls).

As you can see the pattern homes from this angle, its a triangular grid pattern of the abodes.

I believe there where 10 diamond shaped subdivisions that was divided into 5 pattern homes.

I can break down this equation which fits the triangle pattern as we can see.

for example

each number equals 5 pattern homes

...8 9
..5 6 7
.1 2 3 4

There in lays an equal arrangement that I feel equates to the pattern homes of the triangle City. Superimpose over the area and you have the original design. Also note no more than 500 individuals in each division which would provide ample room to explore.

The city layout from what I see in the image is approximately 19km x 18km x 21km at the base, there is more than enough room in each subdivision for individuals housed within the pattern homes.

I think these clues are quite substantial and can be seen in the images and that also makes up a perfection triangle a perfect fit.

I wouldn't be surprised if the divisions were diamonds and triangles within as the pattern homes, the triangle homes within the diamond subdivisions.

In the following image is an example of the pattern homes within a major subdivision.


Looking for the clues


The land provision within the city walls was sufficient to provide for pasturage and gardening for the support of a population of about twenty thousand.

The interiors of the central temple of worship and the ten council mansions of the supervising groups of supermen were indeed beautiful works of art. And while the residential buildings were models of neatness and cleanliness, everything was very simple and altogether primitive in comparison with later-day developments. At this headquarters of culture no methods were employed which did not naturally belong on Urantia.

The Prince's corporeal staff presided over simple and exemplary abodes which they maintained as homes designed to inspire and favorably impress the student observers sojourning at the world's social center and educational headquarters.


The Prince's staff lived together as fathers and mothers. True, they had no children of their own, but the fifty pattern homes of Dalamatia never sheltered less than five hundred adopted little ones assembled from the superior families of the Andonic and Sangik races; many of these children were orphans. They were favored with the discipline and training of these superparents; and then, after three years in the schools of the Prince (they entered from thirteen to fifteen), they were eligible for marriage and ready to receive their commissions as emissaries of the Prince to the needy tribes of their respective races.


This was the law of Dalamatia for almost three hundred thousand years. And many of the stones on which this law was inscribed now lie beneath the waters off the shores of Mesopotamia and Persia. It became the custom to hold one of these commands in mind for each day of the week, using it for salutations and mealtime thanksgiving.


The country around the city was quite well settled within a radius of one hundred miles. Immediately surrounding the city, hundreds of graduates of the Prince's schools engaged in animal husbandry and otherwise carried out the instruction they had received from his staff and their numerous human helpers. A few engaged in agriculture and horticulture


At the outbreak of the rebellion, Dalamatia had a resident population of almost six thousand. This number includes the regular students but does not embrace the visitors and observers, who always numbered more than one thousand. But you can have little or no concept of the marvelous progress of those faraway times; practically all of the wonderful human gains of those days were wiped out by the horrible confusion and abject spiritual darkness which followed the Caligastia catastrophe of deception and sedition.


All subsequent history has been definitely modified by this catastrophic blunder as well as by the later failure of Adam and Eve to fulfill their planetary mission.


3. The Caligastia one hundred were personally immortal, or undying. There circulated through their material forms the antidotal complements of the life currents of the system; and had they not lost contact with the life circuits through rebellion, they would have lived on indefinitely until the arrival of a subsequent Son of God, or until their sometime later release to resume the interrupted journey to Havona and Paradise.

These antidotal complements of the Satania life currents were derived from the fruit of the tree of life, a shrub of Edentia which was sent to Urantia by the Most Highs of Norlatiadek at the time of Caligastia's arrival. In the days of Dalamatia this tree grew in the central courtyard of the temple of the unseen Father, and it was the fruit of the tree of life that enabled the material and otherwise mortal beings of the Prince's staff to live on indefinitely as long as they had access to it.

and little about Eden but might reflect the design of the Fathers Temple in Dalamatia City.

line 104:           When Van and his associates made ready the Garden for Adam and Eve, they transplanted the Edentia tree to the Garden of Eden, where, once again, it grew in a central, circular courtyard of another temple to the Father. And Adam and Eve periodically partook of its fruit for the maintenance of their dual form of physical life.



The headquarters of the Planetary Prince on Urantia was typical of such stations on a young and developing sphere. The nucleus of the Prince's settlement was a very simple but beautiful city, enclosed within a wall forty feet high. This world center of culture was named Dalamatia in honor of Daligastia.


The city was laid out in ten subdivisions with the headquarters mansions of the ten councils of the corporeal staff situated at the centers of these subdivisions.

Centermost in the city was the temple of the unseen Father.

The administrative headquarters of the Prince and his associates was arranged in twelve chambers immediately grouped about the temple itself.

The buildings of Dalamatia were all one story except the council headquarters, which were two stories, and the central temple of the Father of all, which was small but three stories in height.

The city represented the best practices of those early days in building material--brick. Very little stone or wood was used. Home building and village architecture among the surrounding peoples were greatly improved by the Dalamatian example.

Near the Prince's headquarters there dwelt all colors and strata of human beings. And it was from these near-by tribes that the first students of the Prince's schools were recruited. Although these early schools of Dalamatia were crude, they provided all that could be done for the men and women of that primitive age.

The Prince's corporeal staff continuously gathered about them the superior individuals of the surrounding tribes and, after training and inspiring these students, sent them back as teachers and leaders of their respective people


4. The faculty on dissemination and conservation of knowledge. This group organized and directed the purely educational endeavors of those early ages. It was presided over by Fad. The educational methods of Fad consisted in supervision of employment accompanied by instruction in improved methods of labor. Fad formulated the first alphabet and introduced a writing system. This alphabet contained twenty-five characters. For writing material these early peoples utilized tree barks, clay tablets, stone slabs, a form of parchment made of hammered hides, and a crude form of paperlike material made from wasps' nests. The Dalamatia library, destroyed soon after the Caligastia disaffection, comprised more than two million separate records and was known as the "house of Fad."


2. Pre-Sumerians and other Nodites. There were also present in Mesopotamia, near the mouth of the rivers, remnants of the ancient culture of the days of Dalamatia. With the passing millenniums, this group became thoroughly admixed with the Adamites to the north, but they never entirely lost their Nodite traditions. Various other Nodite groups that had settled in the Levant were, in general, absorbed by the later expanding violet race.

one may think that Dalamatia City lays close by to the rivers.  Not necessarily so.  "The remnants of the ancient culture of the days of Dalamatia" may very well speak of the last remnants of Dalamatia culture, the Nodites who built the two Nodite submerged Cities Babel/Dilmun and 1st Susa where Dalamatia lays further to the South.  These two Nodite cities where submerged due to rising sea levels.


Five per cent of the Andites, the very superior culture of the coastal district about the mouths of the Tigris and Euphrates who had kept themselves free from intermarriage with the inferior neighboring tribesmen, refused to leave their homes. This group represented the survival of many superior Nodite and Adamite strains.

The Andites had almost entirely evacuated this region by 6000 B.C., though their descendants, largely mixed with the surrounding Sangik races and the Andonites of Asia Minor, were there to give battle to the northern and eastern invaders at a much later date.


Lets look at the Sea Levels since the last ice age


From my Measurements using NASA worldwind software bathymetric facility.

Dalamatia is around 70 metres deep, Babel/Dilmun is about 67 metres deep and 1st Susa is around 20 metres.

According to the above graph anytime before 11,000 years ago Dalamatia would of been exposed to the elements.  With the Sea line at its shores and rising.

At around 20,000 years ago the ruins of Dalamatia City would of been approximately 50 metres above the current sea level.  That's around 150ft above the sea level but rising due to the ending of the ice age. 

Babel/Dilmun was destroyed at around 11,000 years ago and the last Nodite City 1st Susa 6-7000 years ago, the remnant Nodite/Andite from the days of Dalamatia living between the rivers.


However.  It was during the flood times that Susa so greatly prospered. The first and lower city was inundated so that the second or higher town succeeded the lower as the headquarters for the peculiar artcrafts of that day. With the later diminution of these floods, Ur became the center of the pottery industry. About seven thousand years ago Ur was on the Persian Gulf, the river deposits having since built up the land to its present limits. These settlements suffered less from the floods because of better controlling works and the widening mouths of the rivers..


and that makes sense because at that specific time the


The river dwellers were accustomed to rivers overflowing their banks at certain seasons; these periodic floods were annual events in their lives. But new perils threatened the valley of Mesopotamia as a result of progressive geologic changes to the north.

For thousands of years after the submergence of the first Eden the mountains about the eastern coast of the Mediterranean and those to the northwest and northeast of Mesopotamia continued to rise. This elevation of the highlands was greatly accelerated about 5000 B.C., and this, together with greatly increased snowfall on the northern mountains, caused unprecedented floods each spring throughout the Euphrates valley. These spring floods grew increasingly worse so that eventually the inhabitants of the river regions were driven to the eastern highlands. For almost a thousand years scores of cities were practically deserted because of these extensive deluges.

So in the case of Ur because of the rising of the mountains in the North with more floods in the valley means more sediment over the long term and thus a build up of sediment up to the current coastline of the Persian Gulf.  However in all of this this time you have the raising of the sea levels.  The lost cities of the Persian Gulf seen in the images where lost long before the flood periods of Mesopotamia.

Post  Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:24 am

Here is compile of links looking for Dalamatia trying find descriptions of the place which I believe point to the Location of Dalamatia City, submerged in the Southern Persian Gulf in a expanded Mesopotamia 10,000 years ago.


Other Tidbits


line 70: Although the culture and religion of Egypt were chiefly derived from Andite Mesopotamia and largely transmitted to subsequent civilizations through the Hebrews and Greeks, much, very much, of the social and ethical idealism of the Egyptians arose in the valley of the Nile as a purely evolutionary development. Notwithstanding the importation of much truth and culture of Andite origin, there evolved in Egypt more of moral culture as a purely human development than appeared by similar natural techniques in any other circumscribed area prior to the bestowal of Michael.

Icon 1 posted 10-31-2007 02:21 AM


line 70: Although the culture and religion of Egypt were chiefly derived from Andite Mesopotamia and largely transmitted to subsequent civilizations through the Hebrews and Greeks, much, very much, of the social and ethical idealism of the Egyptians arose in the valley of the Nile as a purely evolutionary development. Notwithstanding the importation of much truth and culture of Andite origin, there evolved in Egypt more of moral culture as a purely human development than appeared by similar natural techniques in any other circumscribed area prior to the bestowal of Michael.

I figure since Solon was told about Atlantis from the Egyptians it therefore stands to reason that the real Atlantis is in the Persian Gulf. Since the Egyptians came from there, they where the Andites.

Atlantis is all about the lost submerged cities in the Persian Gulf.

and here is more about the Andites and the area they come from which points directly to the Dilmuns submerged in the North Eastern Persian Gulf.



Five per cent of the Andites, the very superior culture of the coastal district about the mouths of the Tigris and Euphrates who had kept themselves free from intermarriage with the inferior neighboring tribesmen , refused to leave their homes. This group represented the survival of many superior Nodite and Adamite strains.

The Andites had almost entirely evacuated this region by 6000 B.C. , though their descendants, largely mixed with the surrounding Sangik races and the Andonites of Asia Minor, were there to give battle to the northern and eastern invaders at a much later date.

Many of the migrating Andites moved to Egypt and carried there legends with them including Atlantis which in truth is about the demise of Dalamatia in many ways with the physical descriptions of the city of Dilmun/Babel.

Which I believe was built on an isthmus.

The builder of the great Pyramid was an Andite



line 106: The Egyptians very early assembled their municipal deities into an elaborate national system of gods. They developed an extensive theology and had an equally extensive but burdensome priesthood. Several different leaders sought to revive the remnants of the early religious teachings of the Sethites, but these endeavors were short-lived. The Andites built the first stone structures in Egypt. The first and most exquisite of the stone pyramids was erected by Imhotep, an Andite architectural genius, while serving as prime minister. Previous buildings had been constructed of brick, and while many stone structures had been erected in different parts of the world, this was the first in Egypt. But the art of building steadily declined from the days of this great architect.

It all seems to be pointing the Persian Gulf to the cities of myth, legend and truth.

Here is a link looking for more clues

all the best


[ 10-31-2007, 02:22 AM: Message edited by: sevens ]

Icon 1 posted 10-31-2007 02:47 AM

Here is some calculation


From my Measurements using NASA worldwind software bathymetric facility. However note: these depths could vary in reality which affects the timeline a destruction.

Dalamatia is around 70 metres deep, Babel/Dilmun is about 67 metres deep and
1st Susa is around 20 metres.

According to the above graph anytime before 11,000 years ago Dalamatia would of been exposed to the elements. With the Sea line at its shores and rising.

At around 20,000 years ago the ruins of Dalamatia City would of been approximately 50 metres above the current sea level. That's around 150ft above the sea level but rising due to the ending of the ice age.

Babel/Dilmun was destroyed at around 11,000 years ago and the last Nodite City to be destroyed,
1st Susa 8000 years ago, the remnant Nodite/Andite from the days of Dalamatia living between the rivers. At around 5000BC Ur was on the Persian Gulf, the Persian Gulf was further to the North near the river mouths. However the sea level rise seems from those days seems to be negligent to the present day.


However. It was during the flood times that Susa so greatly prospered. The first and lower city was inundated so that the second or higher town succeeded the lower as the headquarters for the peculiar artcrafts of that day. With the later diminution of these floods, Ur became the center of the pottery industry. About seven thousand years ago Ur was on the Persian Gulf , the river deposits having since built up the land to its present limits. These settlements suffered less from the floods because of better controlling works and the widening mouths of the rivers..


[ 10-31-2007, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: sevens ]

Tablet 13

The Targum from the Beginnings and Facebook timeline